Settlement -vs- loan charge Settlement -vs- loan charge - Page 2
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  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by luxCon View Post
    Can someone who knows clarify if I entered a loan agreement before 9th Dec 2010, but continued to get paid under that agreement after this date, am I liable to the LC on any of the loans, only those after 9th Dec or all of the loans under that agreement?

    SAM's recommendation says "I therefore conclude that the Loan Charge should not apply to loans entered into by either individuals or employers before 9th December 2010" - To me that could mean that I am not liable to pay LC on loans received on and after 9th Dec if the agreement entered before

    However HMRC site says "If you were employed when you received a loan, the loan charge applies to outstanding loans made between 9 December 2010 and 5 April 2019." - This to me says I am liable to that portion of the payments made to me on and after 9th Dec
    Who is SAM? And why do you take their advice rather than HMRC's?
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  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by eek View Post
    Who is SAM?
    Sir Amyas Morse

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    Quote Originally Posted by eek View Post
    Who is SAM? And why do you take their advice rather than HMRC's?
    OK lets not now all get political.

    I think we all know that his statement meant tax year rather than when the loan agreement was signed. We all know who SAM is and his recomendations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lowpaidworker View Post
    OK lets not now all get political.

    I think we all know that his statement meant tax year rather than when the loan agreement was signed. We all know who SAM is and his recomendations.
    I had no idea who SAM was.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paralytic View Post
    I had no idea who SAM was.
    becasue you are relatively new to this I assume but my comment was not aimed at you. You only have to have a smidgeon of knowledge to know SAM = Sir Amyas Morse and any Google search shows up his Loan Charge review

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by luxCon View Post
    Can someone who knows clarify if I entered a loan agreement before 9th Dec 2010, but continued to get paid under that agreement after this date, am I liable to the LC on any of the loans, only those after 9th Dec or all of the loans under that agreement?

    SAM's recommendation says "I therefore conclude that the Loan Charge should not apply to loans entered into by either individuals or employers before 9th December 2010" - To me that could mean that I am not liable to pay LC on loans received on and after 9th Dec if the agreement entered before

    However HMRC site says "If you were employed when you received a loan, the loan charge applies to outstanding loans made between 9 December 2010 and 5 April 2019." - This to me says I am liable to that portion of the payments made to me on and after 9th Dec
    Does anyone who knows what they talking about provide an answer to the above please?

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by lowpaidworker View Post
    OK lets not now all get political.

    I think we all know that his statement meant tax year rather than when the loan agreement was signed. We all know who SAM is and his recomendations.
    I'm sorry but acronyms on a public forum without context aren't any use for anyone which is why I asked the question. SAM could equally be a random tax firm (they've used most possible variations over the years).
    Last edited by eek; 16th September 2020 at 15:09.
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  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by luxCon View Post
    Does anyone who knows what they talking about provide an answer to the above please?
    I suspect your option is to follow HMRC's instructions or put figures that HMRC will deem to be incorrect into your self assessment form and see how HMRC reacts.

    Given however that HMRC could (and indeed often do) regard every individual payment as a separate loan, I would tend towards the view that any money received on or after 9 December 2010 needs to be included.
    Last edited by eek; 16th September 2020 at 15:24.
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  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by luxCon View Post
    Can someone who knows clarify if I entered a loan agreement before 9th Dec 2010, but continued to get paid under that agreement after this date, am I liable to the LC on any of the loans, only those after 9th Dec or all of the loans under that agreement?

    SAM's recommendation says "I therefore conclude that the Loan Charge should not apply to loans entered into by either individuals or employers before 9th December 2010" - To me that could mean that I am not liable to pay LC on loans received on and after 9th Dec if the agreement entered before

    However HMRC site says "If you were employed when you received a loan, the loan charge applies to outstanding loans made between 9 December 2010 and 5 April 2019." - This to me says I am liable to that portion of the payments made to me on and after 9th Dec
    The loan charge legislation works on when the "loan" was paid.

    In practical terms, almost all loan agreements written and signed before 9th December 2010 were terminated very shortly after that date - or sometimes well after that date but backdated - and I cannot think of one of the 120 odd schemes I've researched which used the same agreement much after March 2011.

    Further some loan agreements worked in a similar way to "master/servant" agreements. In other words the "master" agreement had all the terms and conditions and the "servant" agreement was prepared for each drawdown. Does that result in an agreement being pre 9/12/10 or is it the date of each servant agreement?

    I have a view on that but I guarantee that HMRC does not and they will be keying everything off date money was paid.
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  10. #20

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    Default FT loan charge article

    Quote Originally Posted by eek View Post
    I could transform that into a flow chart if completely necessary but I think it's clear enough for everyone.
    The FT ran an article this morning which included a flowchart courtesy of WTT/BDO

    The direct link is here:

    Subscribe to read | Financial Times

    If you are not a subscriber it can be accessed by googling "FT loan charge" clicking "news" and hitting the top link.

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