EBT HELL: Assignment Solutions Isle Of Man / Premier Tax Strategies / DMS

[Confused99]

No they are not lame. There's a huge amount of reading to do to get your head round everything. Here's a summary of the options you have available to you. (Caveat - I am a member of Big Group)

Three options

a) pay APN and wait years for the Penfolds litigation to work it's way through the tax tribunal system (First, Upper and subsequent appeals). The outcome of the Penfolds litigation will have direct bearing on ASIOM users. They are effectively the same scheme. The same people at HMRC are dealing with both schemes. IF Penfolds win their case then there will be no tax demands for ASIOM users and APNs should be refunded. This will takes at least 5 years to grind through the system.

b) pay CLSO - but it may be too late for that as the offer closed end of July. Bearing in mind the CLSO is deemed not to be a very fair or comprehensive settlement by some advisors. But I'd speak to the Settlement Office and see what they have to say. Showing willingness in trying to reach a settlement with HMRC via this route is recommended by tax advisors I've spoken to.

c) Pay APN and Join Big Group. The we have a wait to see HMRC are willing to negotiate and offer a better settlement en-masses with all BG members. This is by no means guaranteed but is another approach that many of us here are taking.,

Option c) will be a good bet if HMRC finally loose rangers case and some of the other EBT litigation they are engaged in with UBS and other parties.

Speak to Big Group if you need some help getting your APN figures checked. Or if you have a local tax advisor have a chat with them.

Thanks so much, Neil99. Well, the Big Group, here I come.........

[MercladUK]

No they are not lame. There's a huge amount of reading to do to get your head round everything. Here's a summary of the options you have available to you. (Caveat - I am a member of Big Group)

Three options

a) pay APN and wait years for the Penfolds litigation to work it's way through the tax tribunal system (First, Upper and subsequent appeals). The outcome of the Penfolds litigation will have direct bearing on ASIOM users. They are effectively the same scheme. The same people at HMRC are dealing with both schemes. IF Penfolds win their case then there will be no tax demands for ASIOM users and APNs should be refunded. This will takes at least 5 years to grind through the system.

b) pay CLSO - but it may be too late for that as the offer closed end of July. Bearing in mind the CLSO is deemed not to be a very fair or comprehensive settlement by some advisors. But I'd speak to the Settlement Office and see what they have to say. Showing willingness in trying to reach a settlement with HMRC via this route is recommended by tax advisors I've spoken to.

c) Pay APN and Join Big Group. The we have a wait to see HMRC are willing to negotiate and offer a better settlement en-masses with all BG members. This is by no means guaranteed but is another approach that many of us here are taking.,

Option c) will be a good bet if HMRC finally loose rangers case and some of the other EBT litigation they are engaged in with UBS and other parties.

Speak to Big Group if you need some help getting your APN figures checked. Or if you have a local tax advisor have a chat with them.

Hi Neil

If HMRC start losing cases, would Option c still be valid?

[neil99]

Hi Neil

If HMRC start losing cases, would Option c still be valid?

option c) is purely speculative at the moment. But if HMRC *wins* important EBT cases then I doubt option c) would be a runner anymore. But so far HMRC have not won an EBT case similar to ASIOM/Penfolds. The hope is that HMRC do loose more cases and will consider a settlement offer on more favourable terms.

IF you sign up to Big Group (60 + VAT) you have access to the papers that set out these arguments more carefully. Whether you sign up to BG for the long term is your decision.

[Confused99]

Loan amount and P11D

Hello,
I am trying to get hold of a 2005/06 P11D. I am waiting for Optimus to respond but my APN/Settlement Officer tells me they do not have a copy of the P11D. The HMRC website says you can write to them for a copy of a P11D. Do you think ASIOM didn't provide a P11D, HMRC has subsequently destroyed it because it is old or has it stored?

Also, did people have loans greater than 3 x salary or is everybody asking for a revision to their APN /Settlement a Opportunities?

Thanks

[neil99]

Hello,
I am trying to get hold of a 2005/06 P11D. I am waiting for Optimus to respond but my APN/Settlement Officer tells me they do not have a copy of the P11D. The HMRC website says you can write to them for a copy of a P11D. Do you think ASIOM didn't provide a P11D, HMRC has subsequently destroyed it because it is old or has it stored?

Also, did people have loans greater than 3 x salary or is everybody asking for a revision to their APN /Settlement a Opportunities?

Thanks

Originally the CLSO guesstimated by loan amounts for ASIOM. They were way off. At a guess about 30% too much.

DMS did my P11D and personal return. It had the wrong dates for a loan so was incorrect. I had all my figures amended in correspondence with settlement opportunity office. I sent them bank statements for relevant timeframes.

[Confused99]

Loans and P11D

Originally the CLSO guesstimated by loan amounts for ASIOM. They were way off. At a guess about 30% too much.

DMS did my P11D and personal return. It had the wrong dates for a loan so was incorrect. I had all my figures amended in correspondence with settlement opportunity office. I sent them bank statements for relevant timeframes.

Thanks Neil99.

[MrsB1974]

Three options

a) pay APN and wait years for the Penfolds litigation to work it's way through the tax tribunal system (First, Upper and subsequent appeals). The outcome of the Penfolds litigation will have direct bearing on ASIOM users. They are effectively the same scheme. The same people at HMRC are dealing with both schemes. IF Penfolds win their case then there will be no tax demands for ASIOM users and APNs should be refunded. This will takes at least 5 years to grind through the system.

... is there a way we can keep up with what's happening with the Penfolds scheme fight? If they eventually win against HMRC will the withdrawal of ASIOM APNs be automatic or will we have to chase them (hence my first question!)?

c) Pay APN and Join Big Group. The we have a wait to see HMRC are willing to negotiate and offer a better settlement en-masses with all BG members. This is by no means guaranteed but is another approach that many of us here are taking.

... so BG's goal is to effectively reduce the amounts owed by members, rather than argue the rights or wrongs of EBT schemes (in general, as I understand almost every one has its quirks) and have all BG members' APNs withdrawn?

Many thanks for the clarification

[neil99]

... is there a way we can keep up with what's happening with the Penfolds scheme fight? If they eventually win against HMRC will the withdrawal of ASIOM APNs be automatic or will we have to chase them (hence my first question!)?




... so BG's goal is to effectively reduce the amounts owed by members, rather than argue the rights or wrongs of EBT schemes (in general, as I understand almost every one has its quirks) and have all BG members' APNs withdrawn?

Many thanks for the clarification

HI Mrs B

BG's stated goal is to achieve a fairer settlement than currently on offer for contractors who used EBT schemes.

I'm not following the Penfolds stuff too closely. But if they win in court (after appeals and sometime beyond 2020) then APN's will be repaid.

[MrsB1974]

Thanks Neil.

[paul1315]

APN and CLSO

Got both now.

Loan settlement opportunity arrived this morning including extortionate interest rates but only mentions 30th Sept as deadline for agreeing to it. That's a bit difficult when you get it after that date, and surprise, surprise HMRC aren't answering the phone. I see interest is charged to 30th October 2015.

There's a few pages about IHT liability that serves to raise concerns about future liabilities which are not covered by the settlement opportunity and the letter advises contacting the loan trustees as IHT liability will be dependent on how the trust operates. I've sent them an email just now, but does anyway have any knowledge of this already?

I'd consider settling purely to get rid of the stress factor even though part of me wants to fight it, but if there's still a potential IHT charge in future then I'm less inclined to do so.

Thanks