HMRC enquiries for EBT schemes through SANZAR

[MrO666]

You are right --- They will not bankrupt anyone...They just interested in money.And anyways majority of the ppl will have property --- not sure if they will go after that too!!

I do have a few questions over the assessment send... Any chance you have five minutes to spare? ( I Know its too much to ask) Need direction on how to read what they have send and how do i approach my calculations if i get hold of all bank statements...

All you are interested in are the figures which you received in loans, not salary. Any salary payments were already taken into account on your tax return (or should have been). Just add up your loans received through the tax year, add on top of that the salary which you received, and then use on online tax calculator to work out any potential tax liability for the specific year.

Remember as it stands it's the tax which is in question here, and not the NIC's.

If you want to send me a private message with any questions, then feel free to do so.

[gamechanger]

All you are interested in are the figures which you received in loans, not salary. Any salary payments were already taken into account on your tax return (or should have been). Just add up your loans received through the tax year, add on top of that the salary which you received, and then use on online tax calculator to work out any potential tax liability for the specific year.

Remember as it stands it's the tax which is in question here, and not the NIC's.

If you want to send me a private message with any questions, then feel free to do so.

Cheers Mate.

At least have something to start with now.

How do you PM -- Sorry new to this site...

Thanks Again.

[davieloco]

You are right --- They will not bankrupt anyone...They just interested in money.And anyways majority of the ppl will have property --- not sure if they will go after that too!!

I do have a few questions over the assessment send... Any chance you have five minutes to spare? ( I Know its too much to ask) Need direction on how to read what they have send and how do i approach my calculations if i get hold of all bank statements...

I do not think that anyone should be in any doubt, the HMRC are after tax receipts pure and simple as that, they will look to try and maximise the return to public coffers. If they think that pushing you bankrupt is the way to go they will do it to release any equity in your property. Due to the sums of money that some people are under the cosh for I cannot see the HMRC accepting a payment plan over anything longer that 3 years, which is probably far too short for some people.

I have been speaking to various Insolvency Practitioners over the last few months and the advice that I have been given is prepare to go bankrupt and when they push too hard go for bankruptcy and roll any tax liability/debts that they have not asked for within that up to the point of going bankrupt.

Not the best thing for me as I work in the finance industry so will need to look at other sectors but it will make it go away so I can move on. The alternative for people that have used multiple schemes over the years is that we will be getting the same letters and demands over the next few years even if we pay up the money they have asked for now.

[MrO666]

I do not think that anyone should be in any doubt, the HMRC are after tax receipts pure and simple as that, they will look to try and maximise the return to public coffers. If they think that pushing you bankrupt is the way to go they will do it to release any equity in your property. Due to the sums of money that some people are under the cosh for I cannot see the HMRC accepting a payment plan over anything longer that 3 years, which is probably far too short for some people.

I have been speaking to various Insolvency Practitioners over the last few months and the advice that I have been given is prepare to go bankrupt and when they push too hard go for bankruptcy and roll any tax liability/debts that they have not asked for within that up to the point of going bankrupt.

Not the best thing for me as I work in the finance industry so will need to look at other sectors but it will make it go away so I can move on. The alternative for people that have used multiple schemes over the years is that we will be getting the same letters and demands over the next few years even if we pay up the money they have asked for now.

This would make no sense in my opinion.

If by making you bankrupt then HMRC will get more money, then there is probably a way for the individual to release that money themselves. HMRC can't magic it out of thin air, there needs to be assets which will realise that value, so why go bankrupt, why not try and realise those assets yourself beforehand ?

Don't believe what anybody says about bankruptcy being an easy way out, you will be a financial pariah for 6 years+. All this talk about being discharged after 12 months is of course true, but good luck in trying to find ANY company to lend you a penny at sensible rates for years after that, you won't even be able to get a mobile phone contract. After all, if you were a lender would you lend to somebody who's just been discharged from bankruptcy and written off tens of £1000's in debt ?

Like you say, any work in the finance industry is a no go for 6 years, and even when you apply for a mortgage you legally have to say whether you have EVER been declared bankrupt, so you could still feel the repercussions in 10 years.

If it happens, I for one will take it on the chin, sit down with HMRC and talk about the options. I'm sure we will come to an agreement. I'm pretty sure that no judge would be that impressed with HMRC trying to bankrupt somebody who is obviously quite genuinely trying to resolve the issues with them, and who has made a reasonable attempt to do so.

Remember bankruptcy is the absolute last resort, and not something that any half sensible person should do for 50 odd grand.

As for additional demands....remember the 4 year rule (providing you didn't lie to HMRC). If you haven't been hit for 08-09 already (for all schemes you may have used) then HMRC are now time barred. If you don't get hit for 09-10 in the next two weeks, then that's time barred too.

[TonyTucker]

Hi all,

I too am affected by the Sanzar 2008-9 DA an my exposure is large enough to keep me worried at night.

I am also subject to COP8 for a scheme I was in for 2006-7 tax year but have not heard anything regarding this for years. I guess this is still ongoing and I'll hear from HMRC in due course if I am deemed to owe any money?

My main reason for posting is that for 2007-8 I was also on a 3rd scheme (I changed from year to year) but have not received a COP8 or DA for this. Does this mean that I am relatively safe from any investigation for this tax year? Do HMRC have the powers after all this time to open an investigation and ask me to cough up?

Thanks
TT

[gamechanger]

This would make no sense in my opinion.

If by making you bankrupt then HMRC will get more money, then there is probably a way for the individual to release that money themselves. HMRC can't magic it out of thin air, there needs to be assets which will realise that value, so why go bankrupt, why not try and realise those assets yourself beforehand ?

Don't believe what anybody says about bankruptcy being an easy way out, you will be a financial pariah for 6 years+. All this talk about being discharged after 12 months is of course true, but good luck in trying to find ANY company to lend you a penny at sensible rates for years after that, you won't even be able to get a mobile phone contract. After all, if you were a lender would you lend to somebody who's just been discharged from bankruptcy and written off tens of £1000's in debt ?

Like you say, any work in the finance industry is a no go for 6 years, and even when you apply for a mortgage you legally have to say whether you have EVER been declared bankrupt, so you could still feel the repercussions in 10 years.

If it happens, I for one will take it on the chin, sit down with HMRC and talk about the options. I'm sure we will come to an agreement. I'm pretty sure that no judge would be that impressed with HMRC trying to bankrupt somebody who is obviously quite genuinely trying to resolve the issues with them, and who has made a reasonable attempt to do so.

Remember bankruptcy is the absolute last resort, and not something that any half sensible person should do for 50 odd grand.

As for additional demands....remember the 4 year rule (providing you didn't lie to HMRC). If you haven't been hit for 08-09 already (for all schemes you may have used) then HMRC are now time barred. If you don't get hit for 09-10 in the next two weeks, then that's time barred too.

Agreed... Maybe we can talk with them in group and agree a POA...

I am sure they will be willing to help -- It is in there best interest too... Span it over 3/4 years and agree on a sum....

I also had a bank role coming my way few days back.... One of the question in information form was...

You been subject to penalties for deliberate tax evasion?

[davieloco]

This would make no sense in my opinion.

If by making you bankrupt then HMRC will get more money, then there is probably a way for the individual to release that money themselves. HMRC can't magic it out of thin air, there needs to be assets which will realise that value, so why go bankrupt, why not try and realise those assets yourself beforehand ?

Don't believe what anybody says about bankruptcy being an easy way out, you will be a financial pariah for 6 years+. All this talk about being discharged after 12 months is of course true, but good luck in trying to find ANY company to lend you a penny at sensible rates for years after that, you won't even be able to get a mobile phone contract. After all, if you were a lender would you lend to somebody who's just been discharged from bankruptcy and written off tens of £1000's in debt ?

Like you say, any work in the finance industry is a no go for 6 years, and even when you apply for a mortgage you legally have to say whether you have EVER been declared bankrupt, so you could still feel the repercussions in 10 years.

If it happens, I for one will take it on the chin, sit down with HMRC and talk about the options. I'm sure we will come to an agreement. I'm pretty sure that no judge would be that impressed with HMRC trying to bankrupt somebody who is obviously quite genuinely trying to resolve the issues with them, and who has made a reasonable attempt to do so.

Remember bankruptcy is the absolute last resort, and not something that any half sensible person should do for 50 odd grand.

As for additional demands....remember the 4 year rule (providing you didn't lie to HMRC). If you haven't been hit for 08-09 already (for all schemes you may have used) then HMRC are now time barred. If you don't get hit for 09-10 in the next two weeks, then that's time barred too.

I totally agree that bankruptcy is the final option and is also the one that the HMRC will not really want to go for as it will affect their debt recovery targets. I also agree for the odd 50k it is not the best option but you missed the point that for those people that have been using these schemes for a number of years up to present day this will not go away anytime soon (DAs for 2008/9, 2009/10, 2010/11, so once you have sorted the mess from the scheme that they are currently looking at they will then move onto the next one then the next one so it never really stops because it takes so long for the HMRC to chase you.

I know that I am not the only one that is in this position so that is why nobody should go forward with this without fully understanding the potential scope of this proposed legislation and also why they should look at all the options as I cannot see the HMRC coming to some deal for £X00k to be paid back over 20 years if you wrap the perceived liabilities over the last 6 years schemes up.

Even if you do arrange a repayment plan with the HMRC they will still have the option to push you down bankruptcy if you miss payments which with the way the contract market is at the moment can we ever really be confident that we will meet all the payments on time.

Happy if anyone wants to PM me to discuss further

DL

[MrO666]

Hi all,

I too am affected by the Sanzar 2008-9 DA an my exposure is large enough to keep me worried at night.

I am also subject to COP8 for a scheme I was in for 2006-7 tax year but have not heard anything regarding this for years. I guess this is still ongoing and I'll hear from HMRC in due course if I am deemed to owe any money?

My main reason for posting is that for 2007-8 I was also on a 3rd scheme (I changed from year to year) but have not received a COP8 or DA for this. Does this mean that I am relatively safe from any investigation for this tax year? Do HMRC have the powers after all this time to open an investigation and ask me to cough up?

Thanks
TT

I believe if they've not hit you with a DA for it, then you may be clear. That said though, I've never been hit with a COP-8 (yet), so I don't know exactly what powers that does or doesn't give HMRC.

I'm sure one of the more experienced people on this forum will know though.

However, if it were me I'd be pushing HMRC to close down the COP-8, if it's been open for years without any communication, then I think they would have a difficult time in trying to argue it was still active, when they clearly don't appear to have done a single thing with it.

That's just my opinion though.

[MrO666]

Agreed... Maybe we can talk with them in group and agree a POA...

I am sure they will be willing to help -- It is in there best interest too... Span it over 3/4 years and agree on a sum....

I also had a bank role coming my way few days back.... One of the question in information form was...

You been subject to penalties for deliberate tax evasion?

You're clear on that though, look at the wording...'evasion' not 'avoidance'.

Nobody who has used any of these schemes has been accused of tax evasion at all, so you can clearly answer no to that question.

They're more interested in if you've been caught lying to the taxman, not if you used a 'disputed' scheme.

[jbryce]

Agreed... Maybe we can talk with them in group and agree a POA...

I am sure they will be willing to help -- It is in there best interest too... Span it over 3/4 years and agree on a sum....

I also had a bank role coming my way few days back.... One of the question in information form was...

You been subject to penalties for deliberate tax evasion?

>You been subject to penalties for deliberate tax evasion?
You haven't evaded tax - you have avoided it. That, once upon a time, was legal.