Eek's we're all doomed theory

[malvolio]

Thank you... And I do know that what I'm posting especially when it comes to any retrospective tax grab is a worst case scenario but I really don't want people seeing £10-25k tax demands because no one mentioned the issue when said rumours were heard....

Ah, well, we tried that before and look what happened...

People much prefer shooting the messenger than dealing with reality.

[WordIsBond]

And his sidekicks.

What do you think of the latest statements from majority of PS orgs declaring many roles outside?

I don't know if I count as a sidekick or not. But if you think you are scoring Internet points here, I have some really good news for you. I'll give you all the points you want without you even having to provide you deserve them. How many do you want? 10? 20? 43,000? Rack them up, let me know.

Meanwhile....

We don't know how bad this is, yet. We do know that some PSBs are declaring everyone inside. And we know that some NHS guy was telling everyone in the NHS to declare everyone inside. If it doesn't end up that bad, that's great, but that doesn't mean there wasn't a real threat of it being that bad, and that it really HAS been that bad for some people. So maybe it wasn't horrible to give warning of the danger.

We also don't know how real the threat of retroactive tax grabs is, but we know that it's been talked about by more than just people on CUK. So maybe it wasn't horrible to warn people about that possibility, either.

I'm pretty convinced that the only reason it hasn't been as bad as feared is because enough contractors were alert to the situation and told their clients they were going to walk. And that made a lot of PSBs wake up to the fact that this was going to hurt THEM. That made some of them more reasonable, rather than just going into knee-jerk risk protection mode. But if contractors hadn't been telling them they were going to walk, that wouldn't have happened.

Just maybe, you're looking at a cause and effect situation and saying the cause wasn't necessary since the effect has happened. Maybe the warnings had something to do with PSBs being reasonable. Something to consider.

While you're thinking about it, how many Internet points were you wanting? I'll go buy some for you at the Internet points marketplace.

[Stevie Wonder Boy]

And his sidekicks.

What do you think of the latest statements from majority of PS orgs declaring many roles outside?

I've been lurking for quite a while now. Not keen on arguing and wasting my time.

My observations about this whole PS IR35 -

1. Making the client declare status removes the risk from us as contractors. <-- This is a good thing.
2. Removing expenses and making inside exactly like employment, is really just making inside contracts nonviable. If this really is disguised employment then they will fill the roles, if its not and a contractor has choice they will take an outside role. Starting with a 30% to 40% difference in real rate this is not a difficult decision. Also without non taxable travel expenses this further increases the margin and the risk.
3. Agents are dancing round the fire right now, trying get you to engage on a contract, without being sure what is really going on -> Have a look on jobserve and search on Newcastle and Infrastructure for an illustration of a contract that is being advertised by numerous agents as inside and outside. BTW: this is an NHSBA contract, so it must be inside?

So my view - Still wait and see how it really works over the next six months. / Moving the risk to the client for IR35 is good for contractors / Initial impression is the client declaring inside IR35 is going to equal increased cost and a smaller pool of candidates.

[Semtex]

Semtex, the thread title and the opening line is provocative, stop playing the innocent .

Yes, we do tend to deal with worst case scenario on here, but as a long standing contractor surely you already know they are trying to make us all employed if they can....

provocative or cheeky? all in the eye of the beholder

[eek]

provocative or cheeky? all in the eye of the beholder

Keep posting as I'm away on holiday for the next 10 days....

After that you are on ignore so chances are I'll totally miss your pointless point scoring....

[MrMarkyMark]

provocative or cheeky? all in the eye of the beholder

Exactly the same for most of us actually...maybe you like to poke fun like NLUK .

However, he gives really detailed helpful answers too....really

[Semtex]

I don't know if I count as a sidekick or not. But if you think you are scoring Internet points here, I have some really good news for you. I'll give you all the points you want without you even having to provide you deserve them. How many do you want? 10? 20? 43,000? Rack them up, let me know.

Meanwhile....

We don't know how bad this is, yet. We do know that some PSBs are declaring everyone inside. And we know that some NHS guy was telling everyone in the NHS to declare everyone inside. If it doesn't end up that bad, that's great, but that doesn't mean there wasn't a real threat of it being that bad, and that it really HAS been that bad for some people. So maybe it wasn't horrible to give warning of the danger.

We also don't know how real the threat of retroactive tax grabs is, but we know that it's been talked about by more than just people on CUK. So maybe it wasn't horrible to warn people about that possibility, either.

I'm pretty convinced that the only reason it hasn't been as bad as feared is because enough contractors were alert to the situation and told their clients they were going to walk. And that made a lot of PSBs wake up to the fact that this was going to hurt THEM. That made some of them more reasonable, rather than just going into knee-jerk risk protection mode. But if contractors hadn't been telling them they were going to walk, that wouldn't have happened.

Just maybe, you're looking at a cause and effect situation and saying the cause wasn't necessary since the effect has happened. Maybe the warnings had something to do with PSBs being reasonable. Something to consider.

While you're thinking about it, how many Internet points were you wanting? I'll go buy some for you at the Internet points marketplace.

somebody take those mushrooms off of this man

[jamesbrown]

somebody take those mushrooms off of this man

I think you did already

[teapot418]

Keep posting as I'm away on holiday for the next 10 days....

After that you are on ignore so chances are I'll totally miss your pointless point scoring....

You might not delete posts, but you are king of the edit.

Talking of point scoring, where are you off to, and how much does your hotel cost?

[teapot418]

FTAOD, not questioning the usefulness of the majority of eek's posts, but the attitude could do with a little work.