Dust settles - what happened?

[DaveB]

[Finance]

Paid on time and outside IR35 as assessed. All OK.

[cojak]

Paid on time and outside IR35 as assessed. All OK.

[bobspud]

As I've said on other threads, I left my PS client at end of Feb. They were fannying about with the IR35 decisions and didnt really get it about working in march being covered (because it would be paid in April). Having worked there for over 2 years I couldnt risk them declaring inside and then having retrospective.

So then a role came up that the client had decided was inside IR35. Not ideal but, of course, no risk of retrospective action because its new.

The client has upped the rate so it pretty much covers the extra tax. Had no choice because contractors left. Umbrella is a bit of a PITA but it is what is. Local gig etc.

Slightly annoying that they could cut this increase in half, declare the role outside IR35 and both parties would be much better off.

As I've said before, its now cost a public sector organisation a shedload of extra cash to get contractors in. Which will go back in extra tax. Can't see how anyone is gaining at all?

Only gains in extra tax are going to be those PS organisations that, for whatever reason, can't increase the rate. What'll happen then is that contractors will leave/not be interested and the service will suffer. Not well thought through.....

No you are unfortunately missing the point. declaring the role outside is no different to you doing the same. If/when they get audited the result will come out as contrived and there will be a hefty bill to pay for them and you will probably have to give back all your expenses + penalty charges if not criminal fraud on top. Where you are now is the right place for you and you are the safest you have ever been.

Don't take risks on behalf of clients that just want to massage their FTE figures.

[WordIsBond]

No you are unfortunately missing the point. declaring the role outside is no different to you doing the same. If/when they get audited the result will come out as contrived and there will be a hefty bill to pay for them and you will probably have to give back all your expenses + penalty charges if not criminal fraud on top. Where you are now is the right place for you and you are the safest you have ever been.

Don't take risks on behalf of clients that just want to massage their FTE figures.

No contractor is going to face penalties or criminal fraud charges if their PS client declared the role outside.

[swamp]

No contractor is going to face penalties or criminal fraud charges if their PS client declared the role outside.

Exactly. IR35 is something public sector contractors can start to forget about now.

[psychocandy]

How did the rest of the conversation go?

Thats just nuts....

[psychocandy]

Exactly. IR35 is something public sector contractors can start to forget about now.

Yes in a way Im sort of happy. No IR35 to worry about and rate upped to accomodate it so no worse off.

Little bit miffed that I know, if they made a bit of an effort they could cut their increase in half and both parties would be much better off with an outside ir35 role but hey ho. Of course, as a local contractor it also suits me - no expenses mean its not worth someone else staying a hotel all week.

Umbrella is a bit annoying partly because the one I picked is crap (Sterling) but agency payment terms are very good. Timesheet friday, salary in account every tuesday which is good.

And of course, VERY good client here...

[nucastle]

Exactly. IR35 is something public sector contractors can start to forget about now.

How about the indemnity clauses that agents are putting on 'outside' contracts that let them claw back tax in the event they have to pay it to HMRC if a determination is reversed?

A couple of invoices not being paid on time and then magically 'adjusted' is the new risk.

[TheFaQQer]

How about the indemnity clauses that agents are putting on 'outside' contracts that let them claw back tax in the event they have to pay it to HMRC if a determination is reversed?

A couple of invoices not being paid on time and then magically 'adjusted' is the new risk.

They would be illegal - the fee payer is liable for the decision.

Even if they weren't, you'd be silly to accept such a clause - if the agent has a problem with the determination then the place for them to claw the tax back is from the client who made the decision not the contractor who accepted it,