Convince Client NOT to use CEST

[northernladuk]

There was absolutely no point accepting being inside IR35 from the beginning. Should have screwed them long time ago.
Now it is more like the very infamous band 'past redemption' and their only album 'useless amputation'

Thanks for that.

[pscont]

Thanks for that.

Thanks for the thanks and you're welcome.

[northernladuk]

Thanks for the thanks and you're welcome.

199

[IAmContractor]

There was absolutely no point accepting being inside IR35 from the beginning. Should have screwed them long time ago.
Now it is more like the very infamous band 'past redemption' and their only album 'useless amputation'

Not true. I certainly didn't want to abandon the project as I was (and still am) the primary (currently only) consultant. I accepted IR35 because I actually didn't know much about it. I had no idea how intrusive and destructive it was, because I had never come across it in all my years contracting. I thought the contract would be over in 6 months so it would be short lived. Then i got extended and thought it would just be a little longer.

Then I got my taxes done and got the true effects thrown in my face. Unfortunately, through fault of my own, my taxes where only recently completed.

But my god! if you could be a fly on the wall in an office somewhere today! - The day I told them how I see my working practices, and they disagreed with me. And I made it clear that I was only willing to continue on the project under terms which they accepted me as an independent business. Otherwise, I have 2 days remaining on the project.

I even offered to take less money; They actually offered more money. I declined, because I am not willing to continue especially knowing they consider me their employee. I have tried to explain, that moving forward under the correct terms of the contract, is in the best interest of the project and will see it move along quicker and more efficiently.

Why are company management so misguided. They have been locked in a room all afternoon.

You couldn't make this stuff up.

[pscont]

You couldn't make this stuff up.

Some years from now when HMRC comes round to it and apply inside IR35 taxation to the full length of your contract based on documented work practices, keep calm and consider it payment for a taxation/being a contractor how-to course .
Ref. Loan charge tax.

P.S. keep all your correspondence re: this after you leave.

[IAmContractor]

Some years from now when HMRC comes round to it and apply inside IR35 taxation to the full length of your contract based on documented work practices, keep calm and consider it payment for a taxation/being a contractor how-to course .
Ref. Loan charge tax.

P.S. keep all your correspondence re: this after you leave.

I know I shouldn't, but I cant seem to help myself.

I am willing to bet you have been a contractor for all of 5 minutes.

For starters, if HMRC attack my contract, I will gladly defend it as being outside for the full length of the contract. In fact the client will either come back agreeing they misunderstood our relationship, and advise the agency I am outside, or accept I am leaving. Either way, if inside I will put a claim in for holiday pay and get them to admit posthumously that I was not an employee, or I'll get some nice holiday pay. If outside, I will consider if it is possible to claim I was never inside and put in a claim for unlawful deduction of taxes over the past 2 years. I will cross that bridge when i get to it.

My contract is very clear in putting me outside. My working practices are very clear in putting me outside. The client is misinterpreting the expectations, however now that they have made their understanding clear, I can either accept I am their employee or not. I choose not. I never was.

Thanks for your input. You can go back to your lego.

[ShandyDrinker]

Nobody knows how CEST is weighted. HMRC refuse to disclose that.

Is this true? The source code is freely available online and spreadsheet containing the scoring matrix is available there.

[IAmContractor]

Well. Good news!

The client is relenting; they misinterpreted the IR35 question regarding control.

They will inform the agency that my contract should actually be outside IR35.

Now the fun begins; to claim back 2 years of unlawfully deducted tax. I expect I'm not the only one.

Sent from my SM-N950F using Contractor UK Forum mobile app

[JohntheBike]

IR35

Not true. I certainly didn't want to abandon the project as I was (and still am) the primary (currently only) consultant. I accepted IR35 because I actually didn't know much about it. I had no idea how intrusive and destructive it was, because I had never come across it in all my years contracting. I thought the contract would be over in 6 months so it would be short lived. Then i got extended and thought it would just be a little longer.

Then I got my taxes done and got the true effects thrown in my face. Unfortunately, through fault of my own, my taxes where only recently completed.

But my god! if you could be a fly on the wall in an office somewhere today! - The day I told them how I see my working practices, and they disagreed with me. And I made it clear that I was only willing to continue on the project under terms which they accepted me as an independent business. Otherwise, I have 2 days remaining on the project.

I even offered to take less money; They actually offered more money. I declined, because I am not willing to continue especially knowing they consider me their employee. I have tried to explain, that moving forward under the correct terms of the contract, is in the best interest of the project and will see it move along quicker and more efficiently.

Why are company management so misguided. They have been locked in a room all afternoon.

You couldn't make this stuff up.

"I accepted IR35 because I actually didn't know much about it"

without appearing to be critical, I guess this might have been the case for many IT contractors, which may be the reason why HMRC has been able to gain so much traction for their campaign against IT contractors, and despite what many claim, we were always the target for the legislation, although there has been some collateral damage e.g. BBC presenters.

[IAmContractor]

"I accepted IR35 because I actually didn't know much about it"

without appearing to be critical, I guess this might have been the case for many IT contractors, which may be the reason why HMRC has been able to gain so much traction for their campaign against IT contractors, and despite what many claim, we were always the target for the legislation, although there has been some collateral damage e.g. BBC presenters.

You are probably right. My case is, in a way, a warning call to other contractors, that we need to stand up and fight IR35.

On the other hand, I am not giving up on this; I didn't understand it but neither did my client. They thought they "controlled" what i do because they provide me with requirements. The project manager thought I was "controlled" because, in her words, "I never decided on the technology stack. I made suggestions to the IT manager who had final approval." That never happened. And on location and time they assumed I was "controlled" because I came into the office during the day, and work (roughly) 7 hours each day, despite me explaining that I work my own hours, don't always work 7 hours if a task dictates differently, and sometimes work in the evening remotely when I have a task I need to finish.

They appear to now be admitting it was an incorrect judgement.

I am not giving up. I am hoping with the help of the IPSE, to claim back the tax from HMRC since April 2017, as my contract never changed, my working practices never changed, but my clients interpretation was wrong; I just wanted to get on with the project (at the time), and have been trying to get my message to the right people for almost 2 years.

Happy days. Perhaps if more people challenge HMRC in this, it will cause more headache than it is worth.