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HSBC contractors to be inside IR35

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    #31
    Originally posted by ShandyDrinker View Post
    Sadly, I learned over the weekend that HSBC have put policy in place to sack all its contractors come September 2019, with other banks also intending to follow suit. How is this conscionable or fair?
    If they are sacked, they are disguised employees in the first place.

    If their contracts are terminated, what is wrong with that? Being a contractor means you have no employment rights.

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      #32
      Originally posted by BrilloPad View Post
      If they are sacked, they are disguised employees in the first place.

      If their contracts are terminated, what is wrong with that? Being a contractor means you have no employment rights.
      Yeah, I did see sacked and wondered how long before someone on here picked it up. For me it's not the very important nuance between sacked and terminated but the fact that HSBC are allegedly taking the pre-emptive stance they are with respect to the private sector off payroll rollout.

      For anyone who has contracted at HSBC, should they be worried if that's the language used? Sadly I think it's more a reflection on many permitractors than anything. Awaiting flaming...
      Last edited by ShandyDrinker; 10 April 2019, 07:06.

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        #33
        Originally posted by BrilloPad View Post
        If their contracts are terminated, what is wrong with that? Being a contractor means you have no employment rights.
        It means that this 'reform' is going to do a lot of damage to contracting in this country, if major clients stop using contractors. It means that the flexible workforce is going to take a big hit, which is not going to be good for the economy.

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          #34
          Originally posted by ShandyDrinker View Post
          Yeah, I did see "sacked" and wondered how long before someone on here picked it up. For me it's not the very important nuance between sacked and terminated but the fact that HSBC are allegedly taking the pre-emptive stance they are with respect to the private sector off payroll rollout.

          For anyone who has contracted at HSBC, should they be worried if that's the language used? Sadly I think it's more a reflection on many permitractors than anything. Awaiting flaming...
          I don't think they should be worried in a letter to a magazine - I suspect NLUK will disagree.

          I am concerned they think their contracts should be open ended.

          I think quite a few large companies will not want to fight HMRC. And I think all medium sized and small companies will not fight HMRC. Maybe some large companies will try to get an edge on competitors by having outside IR35 contracts?

          Any companies that try to stand in the way of HMRC will face much pressure to comply. The treasury once told HMRC to go easy on certain companies. Maybe they will do so again?

          IPSE, QDOS and agencies be warned. HMRC learnt from Arctic. They are a formidable opponent.

          Comment


            #35
            Originally posted by WordIsBond View Post
            It means that this 'reform' is going to do a lot of damage to contracting in this country, if major clients stop using contractors. It means that the flexible workforce is going to take a big hit, which is not going to be good for the economy.
            Unfortunately the government is 2 steps ahead in that respect. They've seen this coming and already mitigated it.

            If a few hundred thousand contractors end up as casualties, I really don't think they give a damn.

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              #36
              Originally posted by ShandyDrinker View Post
              Unfortunately the government is 2 steps ahead in that respect. They've seen this coming and already mitigated it.

              If a few hundred thousand contractors end up as casualties, I really don't think they give a damn.
              They don't think we are contractors. They think we are glorified typists.

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                #37
                Originally posted by BrilloPad View Post
                I don't think they should be worried in a letter to a magazine - I suspect NLUK will disagree.

                I am concerned they think their contracts should be open ended.

                I think quite a few large companies will not want to fight HMRC. And I think all medium sized and small companies will not fight HMRC. Maybe some large companies will try to get an edge on competitors by having outside IR35 contracts?

                Any companies that try to stand in the way of HMRC will face much pressure to comply. The treasury once told HMRC to go easy on certain companies. Maybe they will do so again?

                IPSE, QDOS and agencies be warned. HMRC learnt from Arctic. They are a formidable opponent.
                Agreed about the open ended contracts. When I contracted at Nationwide Building Society for about 6 months a decade ago, I was gobsmacked how many long term contractors they had there and indeed haven't worked in a contract yet in the South West without bumping into someone who worked on a long term rolling contract at NBS.

                You other comments are completely spot on.

                I believe that for many organisations currently making a good living out of contractors and contracting, these changes will bring about an existential crises. In addition to those you mention, IR35 specialists and all contract accounting firms.

                Although you do mention agencies, they'll survive but change their model - they really are the cockroaches who do the all of the tulip work the rest of us don't want to and take their slice. They'll come out of the other side unscathed.
                Last edited by ShandyDrinker; 10 April 2019, 07:41.

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                  #38
                  Am at HSBC and got a contract till Sept end. Lots of contractors in the team and none of us have heard anything. I will update here if I hear more.
                  Vote Corbyn ! Save this country !

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                    #39
                    Originally posted by JohntheBike View Post
                    I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the new payslip regulations which now take effect. Anyone who is paid on a variable basis, e.g. per hour worked, can now ask for a payslip. This seems to have slipped past the gaze of those who will be administering "inside" contracts. So, if the payer is required to produce a payslip showing tax deducted at source, employer's NI and employee's NI, then that individual will look very much like a full employee. If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and walks like a duck, then it is a duck.
                    Nobody has mentioned it because it is irrelevant to the discussion.

                    In your second sentence, rather than "Anyone who is paid...", the correct phrase would be "Any employee or worker who is paid..." - the law does not apply to those who are neither.

                    Just by being inside IR35 does not make you an employee or a worker, so the regulations do not apply.

                    You could go to a tribunal and argue that you are an employee or worker, and if you win then you could argue that you should have had a payslip, but I'm not sure what the point of that exercise would be.
                    I'm not fat, I'm just fluffy.

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                      #40
                      Originally posted by fullyautomatix View Post
                      Am at HSBC and got a contract till Sept end. Lots of contractors in the team and none of us have heard anything. I will update here if I hear more.
                      Thanks.
                      Assume end of September contracts are shorter than the usual 6 month extensions you're used to?
                      No coincidence that its 6 months prior to April 2020 IR35 'live' date.
                      They seem to be taking the simplified approach - we don't need contractors, convert those we 'need' and bin the rest....then in a few months they'll realise that they have a skills shortage on short term work and don't want to hire people, so they'll reach out to contractors. Its a never ending cycle!
                      THIS is when they'll start thinking about whether or not the skilled person/LTD co they get in is in-scope for IR35.

                      Clients are not preparing themselves for IR35, as they think they can dispense with contractors, but will soon realise that they need them! Probably in lesser numbers, but still.

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