HSBC contractors to be inside IR35

[BoredBloke]

It's not as bad as that though as there a number of factors to consider which generally means the 220 days is fairly irrelevant.

There are 253 working days this year
You take say 20 days a year leaving 233
If you are in finance you are like to have an xmas furlough of up to say 13 days leaving 220

There is also the assumption you'll be there for a year. I'd much rather be on a year long 220 day gig than a 6 mother and potential time on the bench. Could very easily end up billing less than 220 days with gaps between gigs

I've not been anywhere that hasn't been flexible with the rule depending on what you are working on.

So I don't think the 220 day is as big a factor on many gigs. Certainly not a decision point I've had to use.

And all that said. We obviously hate taking time off voluntarily but when there is no choice I find I enjoy the time of much more. I'm not technically losing billing time if it's enforced

I make it 261 mid week days including bank holidays in 1019. Minus 220 and you have 41 days = 8 weeks. Also this was applied pro rata, so the 6 month contract I was asked to sign was in fact for 110 billable days, so a 5 month contract. They didn't want to take into account the 4 weeks they had already spent waiting for the background checks to come through. So I wasn't prepared to take 4 weeks off in the next 6 months and then take off Christmas (contract end date was going to be something like 2nd week in Dec) so I told them to shove it and went to RBS instead. Background checks there took 2 days and while they have a Christmas furlough, I usually take this time off anyway.

When I have a contract I tend to work as much as I can in it - I don't see the point taking 2 months off in every 12 while I have a contract. I prefer the time off to be in the bits when I don't have one!

[northernladuk]

I make it 261 mid week days including bank holidays in 1019.

Ah. I counted bank hols as a non-working day as it's you'll be taking these off regardless of a 220 day rule. So I took the number of possible working days. Adding bank hols in is going to give you a skewed view surely?

[BlueSharp]

HSBC to stop hiring limited company contractors in 2019 due to IR35 changes in 2020

"But HSBC has sweetened its ultimatum for some contractors on a so-called ‘keep’ list it has drawn up, by saying they can stay on as long as they work via a third-party from September.
The thinking at HSBC is that it will remove itself from April 2020’s obligation to decide contractors’ IR35 status, by making them staff or a third-party’s PSC. Or just by axing them."

How would working via a 3rd party stop HSBC having to determine the IR35 status of a contractor? I thought the whole point of these changes was that the end client is liable to determine status? Are they suggesting a bodyshop/consultancy being in the way can limit exposure or have they been creative and are putting a micro business between them and the PSC so the legislation does not apply?

Are workers rights and employment tribunals at play here for the 3rd party involvement and why they wont take on any PSC's they have deemed inside IR35.

[Maslins]

I've just seen the article BlueSharp refers to, then found this thread. Does make me a bit nervous, that other big corporates may follow HSBC's lead here. Perhaps it'll be the bizarre situation of contractors now leaving risk averse private sector to go to more risk tolerant public sector?!

Blanket inside IR35 doesn't seem to benefit anyone. Contractors have all the tax of an employee, but hardly any of the rights. End client has contractors giving them aggro that they think their work should be outside IR35, and potentially threatening some kind of formal challenge. It's an awkward halfway house. I can therefore understand why risk averse end clients won't offer it as an option.

[BoredBloke]

I've just seen the article BlueSharp refers to, then found this thread. Does make me a bit nervous, that other big corporates may follow HSBC's lead here. Perhaps it'll be the bizarre situation of contractors now leaving risk averse private sector to go to more risk tolerant public sector?!

Blanket inside IR35 doesn't seem to benefit anyone. Contractors have all the tax of an employee, but hardly any of the rights. End client has contractors giving them aggro that they think their work should be outside IR35, and potentially threatening some kind of formal challenge. It's an awkward halfway house. I can therefore understand why risk averse end clients won't offer it as an option.

Can't see that myself - this is the end game. When IR35 was pushed onto the public sector their contractors left in droves. They escaped into the private sector and as a result, the only way the public sector could get contractors in was to either increase the rates or offer gig which were outside IR35. Now that the same is happening in the private sector, that escape route has been closed off. My bet is that pretty much all clients will only offer inside roles and the extra premium offered for an inside role will no longer be needed (from the clients point of view)

[wattaj]

...My bet is that pretty much all clients will only offer inside roles and the extra premium offered for an inside role will no longer be needed (from the clients point of view)

My bet will be on a rise in FTC roles. I am already seeing that in Scotland; much more so than in previous years. Bog standard contractors are likely to in for a hard time IMHO.

Sorry to be so down, but I think that the outlook next year is very bleak... it's just not in any BigCo's interest to fight the new rules.

[cojak]

My bet will be on a rise in FTC roles. I am already seeing that in Scotland; much more so than in previous years. Bog standard contractors are likely to in for a hard time IMHO.

Sorry to be so down, but I think that the outlook next year is very bleak... it's just not in any BigCo's interest to fight the new rules.

I agree. I think that well-skilled, confident and clued-up contractors will continue, but they'll be in a constant battle to prove that they are outside IR35. Or even find clients prepared to take them on as outside IR35.

[jamesbrown]

I agree. I think that well-skilled, confident and clued-up contractors will continue, but they'll be in a constant battle to prove that they are outside IR35. Or even find clients prepared to take them on as outside IR35.

I think so too.

[JohntheBike]

I think so too.

agreed also

[swamp]

Yup.

HSBC may well bin all their contractors, but my public sector client struggles to find enough decent contractors. And they pay good rates outside of IR35.