HSBC contractors to be inside IR35

[fiisch]

Been told by a recruiter that Lloyd's of London will be following suit... not a big contractor factory in themselves, but may encourage syndicates to follow suit (if indeed it is true)....

[BoredBloke]

Yup.

HSBC may well bin all their contractors, but my public sector client struggles to find enough decent contractors. And they pay good rates outside of IR35.

Why would they? Your public sector client is currently struggling to find contractors because they are competing with the private sector where IR35 isn't the same beast. Come April the playing field will level (downwards) and the public sector will be about as attractive as the private sector because nobody will be offering outside IR35 roles. Well and truly stitched up by Tories.

[northernladuk]

Why would they? Your public sector client is currently struggling to find contractors because they are competing with the private sector where IR35 isn't the same beast. Come April the playing field will level (downwards) and the public sector will be about as attractive as the private sector because nobody will be offering outside IR35 roles. Well and truly stitched up by Tories.

You are forgetting the actual work aspect. I've worked in two PS orgs. One was pretty good and the other was truly awful. When I say good it still wasn't up there with Private gigs I've done so I certainly wouldn't be going to public sector gigs if I had the choice.

[northernladuk]

Just been made aware of a very interesting mail at my gig that's been sent to the leadership teams. There is a whole forum of people looking in to IR35 in 2020 and have reached out to Senior Leads across the business. Quite surprised they are taking it so seriously so early.

Going to try and get myself in to the forum as a contractor voice so I can see how much they actually know and try and help steer them.

[BlueSharp]

Why would they? Your public sector client is currently struggling to find contractors because they are competing with the private sector where IR35 isn't the same beast. Come April the playing field will level (downwards) and the public sector will be about as attractive as the private sector because nobody will be offering outside IR35 roles. Well and truly stitched up by Tories.

It will put an end to permi-tractors that is for sure, which I guess is the whole point of the change.

If you have been at an organisation as an outside IR35 contractor and are looking to switch perm or it is deemed inside ir35, you will need to be prepared to cough up the previous years tax and penalties as you can guarantee HMRC will come looking. Personally there is is no way I would stay and switch status without having money to cover the previous years tax, interest and penalties. I have always had this in the back of my mind which is why I'm very reluctant to do more than 2 years on a gig and never more than 3. Mainly the cost to take me to a tribunal will be more than any Employers NI payments for each engagement.

[BoredBloke]

You are forgetting the actual work aspect. I've worked in two PS orgs. One was pretty good and the other was truly awful. When I say good it still wasn't up there with Private gigs I've done so I certainly wouldn't be going to public sector gigs if I had the choice.

The public sector has always been like that. However when IR35 changed and it was down to them to make the determination, they option of the safety first blanket inside IR35 made, meaning that those who could bugger off did so. Now that the escape route has been closed off the status quo will return but with FTC or inside IR35 roles. Plus you can factor in the likes of Wipro who will now have a competitive advantage in that IR35 won't apply to their imports.

[simes]

I've worked in two PS orgs. One was pretty good and the other was truly awful. When I say good it still ....

WTF is a PS gig?

When is the shining light going to dawn that the words Private and Public both start with the letter P?

[simes]

I've just seen the article BlueSharp refers to, then found this thread. Does make me a bit nervous, that other big corporates may follow HSBC's lead here. Perhaps it'll be the bizarre situation of contractors now leaving risk averse private sector to go to more risk tolerant public sector?!

Blanket inside IR35 doesn't seem to benefit anyone. Contractors have all the tax of an employee, but hardly any of the rights. End client has contractors giving them aggro that they think their work should be outside IR35, and potentially threatening some kind of formal challenge. It's an awkward halfway house. I can therefore understand why risk averse end clients won't offer it as an option.

There's another thought here... If even more companies react the same way as HSBC, and the HMRC chucklesome lot get wind of this and realise that the flexible market is being canned, and as a result the amount of tax they accrue from a largely permie workforce does not increase their tax take one wits, perhaps there will be some wising up?

/Wishful thinking.

[northernladuk]

WTF is a PS gig?

When is the shining light going to dawn that the words Private and Public both start with the letter P?

Public sector issues came up first so in my mind I've adopted PS for Public Sector. We had a PS IR35 forum and many of the threads, including the title in the IR35 reform thread relate to PS meaning public sector.

Forum: IR35 Reform

To discuss the changes to PS contracts that are due later this year.

Sticky: PS & IR35: Choosing a legitimate Umbrella

Any more retarded questions?

[SimonMac]

WTF is a PS gig?

When is the shining light going to dawn that the words Private and Public both start with the letter P?

PS = Public Sector
RW = Real World

That better?