HSBC contractors to be inside IR35

[northernladuk]

we do really need someone who has nothing to lose in April 2020 and who has been blanket judged inside the new regulations, to take their case to the ET. As long as this person isn't contracted to HMRC, who settled out of court in the Winchester case, then there is a chance it will get to the ET, where a decision either way might cause some issues. That person would need to be expertly supported in order to achieve the maximum effect on the issues. But there's the rub, as finding such an organisation to support such a case doesn't seem to be easy.

Why do you think it needs to go to the ET?

MODS. Is there anything similar to the winker emoji that is allowed in Prof forums just out of interest?

[JohntheBike]

Why do you think it needs to go to the ET?

MODS. Is there anything similar to the winker emoji that is allowed in Prof forums just out of interest?

because that's outside of HMRC's jurisdiction, if HMRC is not the client.

a correlating judgement for an inside HMRC judgement would likely result in a contractor receiving employment benefits. A contrary decision is unlikely to occur as the judiciary wouldn't like to be seen to be disagreeing with itself.

Additionally, I believe it would create great political capital for representative organisations.

It's unlikely to happen though as I guess very few would be in a position to do this in April 2020.

[northernladuk]

a correlating judgement for an inside HMRC judgement would likely result in a contractor receiving employment benefits. A contrary decision is unlikely to occur as the judiciary wouldn't like to be seen to be disagreeing with itself.
.

But wouldn't the best fight to prove you are outside IR35. By going for benefits you have folded to the legislation.

[BrilloPad]

MODS. Is there anything similar to the winker emoji that is allowed in Prof forums just out of interest?

:nluk:

[JohntheBike]

But wouldn't the best fight to prove you are outside IR35. By going for benefits you have folded to the legislation.

well, this has always been the argument against such action. However, recent (Winchester) and historic cases (mine) have proven this approach to be a viable option. Whereas the "tea and biscuits" approach of some, has proven to be fruitless. HMRC dismisses reasoned argument and ignores case law when not in their favour, and must be attacked with every option available. They play dirty and hard with our money, and the community must respond likewise.

[northernladuk]

You lost yours though, twice, thank ****.

[JohntheBike]

You lost yours though thank ****.

yes, which is exactly what I was intending to do -

As far as I know, there is only one case so far which has shown CEST to be legally flawed. In my opinion, this is the only way in which CEST will be countered. Given Mel Stride's response to my letter to my MP, where he justifies CEST, this is abundantly clear. Talking and reasoned argument have achieved nothing.

However, at the risk of repeating myself, I wasn't prepared for the legal skulduggery which accompanied the proceedings.

[northernladuk]

So... When you bleating on about fighting the upcoming legislation can you make it clear that you're happy to fold and are focusing on claiming employee benefits once the horse has bolted.

[JohntheBike]

So... When you bleating on about fighting the upcoming legislation can you make it clear that you're happy to fold and are focusing on claiming employee benefits once the horse has bolted.

que?

what I do is irrelevant. I'm just demonstrating that actions not words are the only way to counter IR35.

[Mohit007]

If this is the case; I am sure sooner or later this will come out as a wrong decision. 1-) No contractor wants to enormously lower their rates (+ they might be asking for employment benefits as well) 2-) They cannot convert everyone to permanent; since there is a reason (agility of work load) for contractors. After they get the initial response from the contractors and make a meetings to asses the situation they will have to seek alternatives. This is my point of view.

On the other hand Mohitt who works for the was saying the Agency is offering outside IR35. Something like Capgemini to HMRC public sector solution. Mohitt can you confirm this are you sure the Agency is outside IR35?

As per agency they are outside IR35 , and I will be working as consultant , but not contractor. I will get their contract reviewed by QDOS. Also, this is going to be fixed term contract instead of rolling contract.