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Public Sector / Hays U Paystream Employers NI

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    #11
    Could you put the quote before your response so we have some context please.
    'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

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      #12
      Originally posted by ComplianceLady View Post
      This is something the recruitment industry & umbrellas need to improve. Because of the way income is structured when paid through an umbrella it is virtually impossible to calculate the rate + employers NI so recruiters negotiate and advertise a gross rate, this is paid to the umbrella who pay you minus employer costs. The advertising of rates is generally done as 'limited' or 'paye' - the limited rate is all in, paye is after employer costs. The paye rate doesn't reflect what you're paid umbrella (due to the way the income is structured) and limited includes employer costs so for anyone new to umbrella it can be misleading. We do need a better way of doing this.
      Gross rate is all that matters and all that the agency should advertise as that is what will be in the contract in most cases. i.e. unless the agency offers a payroll service which should be optional so the alternative gross rate should still be available on enquiry.

      You can then use various online contract 'take home pay' calculators for Ltd (inside or outside IR35) and provided by the better brollies, to understand what the bottom line may be (based on various assumptions on personal circumstances). A more accurate personal forecast can be obtained from the brollies when enquiring about their services if you have a known or target gross rate to hand along with your tax code and other personal info they would need to come up with a figure.
      Maybe tomorrow, I'll want to settle down. Until tomorrow, I'll just keep moving on.

      Comment


        #13
        Originally posted by Hobosapien View Post
        Gross rate is all that matters and all that the agency should advertise as that is what will be in the contract in most cases. i.e. unless the agency offers a payroll service which should be optional so the alternative gross rate should still be available on enquiry.

        You can then use various online contract 'take home pay' calculators for Ltd (inside or outside IR35) and provided by the better brollies, to understand what the bottom line may be (based on various assumptions on personal circumstances). A more accurate personal forecast can be obtained from the brollies when enquiring about their services if you have a known or target gross rate to hand along with your tax code and other personal info they would need to come up with a figure.
        That works for contractors who understand the situation but I think OP didn't. They assumed the rate was PAYE. Recruiters are often guilty of just quoting a rate as mostly people are either limited or PAYE (direct or umbrella) and so understand the implication but anyone who's newer won't. I suppose I should say the proposal to clean it up is to explicitly say the rate is inclusive of employer costs but I don't think this is clear enough for some. Though it has to be said that the sign up process should include a pay illustration (paystream are FCSA accred so it's mandatory) which should have made it clear.

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          #14
          Fair point, though anyone new to contracting will benefit from getting clued up on how it all works via freely available sources of information like on CUK.

          Regardless of what the current rules are and the experience of the contractor in the marketplace, the contractor needs to know for sure what is being offered and what it entails.

          Maybe (A)IPSE and the like are pushing for more regulation and business practice standards of the agencies and recruitment process and associated services so a clearer template can be used to ensure everything is in the open, including the agents margin and any associated fees and taxes and who is liable for them, for a more transparent process that gives more protection against dodgy agents and service providers.
          Maybe tomorrow, I'll want to settle down. Until tomorrow, I'll just keep moving on.

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