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Repeal IR35 legislation in Public Sector and proposed Private Sector rollout.

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    #21
    Originally posted by northernladuk View Post
    But by losing you proved that you weren't a target.


    Which is exactly why I'm educating them you moron.

    And if you flapping about is what you call personally attacking IR35 then we are screwed.
    "But by losing you proved that you weren't a target"

    exactly, I'd glad your are now enlightened. So by proving that as a BOS with no ROS, I wasn't an employee of my client, others could do the same and have done so.

    "moron"

    you lose the argument by resorting to abuse.

    "And if you flapping about is what you call personally attacking IR35 then we are screwed"

    I would beg to differ. Using the ET/EAT route is a very valid way of countering IR35 and now eventually some representative organisations are beginning to understand this. Better late than never.

    edit
    and as far as influencing clients is concerned, when IR35 was announced, Hewlett Packard quickly declared there would be no changes to terms and conditions for its contractors. However, as a result of my case and that of another colleague, they quickly moved to strengthening their position in relation to contractual provisions, thus also strengthening the position of their contractors with regards to IR35.
    Last edited by JohntheBike; 29 May 2019, 12:20.

    Comment


      #22
      Originally posted by BrilloPad View Post
      The only thing that can change HMRC is the government. Government want to maximise tax revenue. At any cost.

      So it requires revolution.
      Not necessarily. If only we had a high-powered lobbying organisation to represent us who would pressure candidates for high office (such as PM) during the time when they actually are looking for support (such as during a leadership contest) to commit to certain things. Such as:

      1. A serious review of IR35 to evaluate whether it is fit for purpose or whether a simpler, clearer approach would work.
      2. Pending that, a suspension of off-payroll reforms until HMRC can actually prove that they can make CEST reflect actual case law.
      3. In any event, a suspension of off-payroll reforms until at least 2021 to ensure that the flexible workforce is not hampered or destroyed until Brexit (and clients' response to it) is bedded in.

      The last, at least, should be something that any worthwhile lobbyist should be able to extract from someone who is advocating no-deal as a reasonable outcome of Brexit. Any pro-Brexiter, though, who wants the UK to go it alone should be philosophically in tune with encouraging contractors to go it alone, rather than punishing them. If only there were a lobbying organisation....

      As for the petition, the real unfairness is not that employees get employment rights and we don't. We're generally paid more in lieu of employment rights. The real unfairness is that they get employment rights as a tax-free benefit, and IR35 forces us to pay tax on everything.

      Comment


        #23
        Originally posted by WordIsBond View Post
        Not necessarily. If only we had a high-powered lobbying organisation to represent us who would pressure candidates for high office (such as PM) during the time when they actually are looking for support (such as during a leadership contest) to commit to certain things. Such as:

        1. A serious review of IR35 to evaluate whether it is fit for purpose or whether a simpler, clearer approach would work.
        2. Pending that, a suspension of off-payroll reforms until HMRC can actually prove that they can make CEST reflect actual case law.
        3. In any event, a suspension of off-payroll reforms until at least 2021 to ensure that the flexible workforce is not hampered or destroyed until Brexit (and clients' response to it) is bedded in.

        The last, at least, should be something that any worthwhile lobbyist should be able to extract from someone who is advocating no-deal as a reasonable outcome of Brexit. Any pro-Brexiter, though, who wants the UK to go it alone should be philosophically in tune with encouraging contractors to go it alone, rather than punishing them. If only there were a lobbying organisation....

        As for the petition, the real unfairness is not that employees get employment rights and we don't. We're generally paid more in lieu of employment rights. The real unfairness is that they get employment rights as a tax-free benefit, and IR35 forces us to pay tax on everything.
        "If only we had a high-powered lobbying organisation to represent us "

        there are those who claim to be, but are beginning to demonstrate that they have their own agendas. Claims are also made that influence is being exerted, but without any tangible evidence to support this claim.

        "We're generally paid more in lieu of employment rights."

        well I'm not so convinced of that these days. Some successful industries, e.g. the petro chemical and automotive industries, are paying well. £6000 nett per month is quite common for employees in the automotive industry. I also personally know of an ex council employee who enjoys a pension of £6000+ per month. I've never grossed such a figure.

        "The real unfairness is that they get employment rights as a tax-free benefit, and IR35 forces us to pay tax on everything"

        good point. So the nett financial benefit could be said to negated to the point whereby contracting isn't as lucrative as HMG think it is. However, the loss of security isn't factored in.

        Comment


          #24
          Originally posted by JohntheBike View Post
          "If only we had a high-powered lobbying organisation to represent us "

          there are those who claim to be, but are beginning to demonstrate that they have their own agendas. Claims are also made that influence is being exerted, but without any tangible evidence to support this claim.
          My point is that if there were any such group, they should be looking to extract commitments now when candidates are desperately looking for support.

          I suppose if there is no such group doing so, individual contractors in the constituencies of Tory MPs could be asking their MP to ask candidates for their view on IR35.

          But I can't imagine why any group that claims to represent contractors wouldn't be pursuing this with people like Boris and Dominic and Esther, with anyone who is saying no-deal should be kept on the table. If no-deal happens, some businesses are going to need contractors to help them respond. Whether or not one thinks no-deal is folly, it is certainly folly to destroy the flexible work-force at the same time, in pursuit of a few quid extra tax (which may not even materialise).

          Comment


            #25
            Expecting the masses to feel worried about IR35 and the rest is delusion in it's highest form; the average guy in the call centre couldn't give a flying fig about us and how we are hard-done to because instead of taking home £90k a year we now only get £72k because of this legislation.

            The only more deluded suggestion I've ever heard was when the Barrister's thought that going on strike would make the public feel sorry for them...

            Comment


              #26
              Originally posted by oilboil View Post
              Expecting the masses to feel worried about IR35 and the rest is delusion in it's highest form; the average guy in the call centre couldn't give a flying fig about us and how we are hard-done to because instead of taking home £90k a year we now only get £72k because of this legislation.

              The only more deluded suggestion I've ever heard was when the Barrister's thought that going on strike would make the public feel sorry for them...
              This - masses couldn't care less

              Comment


                #27
                Energy Voice

                [QUOTE=CloudyTech;2649611]Dear all,

                I’ve made a petition – will you sign it?

                Click this link to sign the petition:

                Support Nigel Scragg’s petition - Petitions

                My petition:

                Repeal IR35 legislation in Public Sector and proposed Private Sector rollout.

                Freelance workers and contractors have been treated unfairly by this ill conceived legislation since it's conception. It has been incorrectly used to investigate and prosecute many hardworking self employed business owners striving to be successful in today's world. IR35 is anti-business!

                This is legislation that encourages envy because of supposed benefits to being self employed by some who are not self-employed themselves. Why should a self-employed person working under IR35 be treated the same as an employee regarding taxation? The self-employed under IR35 are not entitled to paid holiday or sickness and by implication have no job security. The HMRC make more money from VAT, Corporation Tax, Income Tax and Dividend Tax than from PAYE. IR35 is about discouraging strivers!
                ________________________________________


                Hi Nigel,

                I'm from Energy Voice, an oil and gas news website based in Aberdeen. I'm keen to discuss to discuss your petition more if you're open to doing so?

                <mod snip Nigel can find you on google if he want to chat>

                Please drop me a line

                Thanks,

                Allister

                Comment

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