Repeal IR35 legislation in Public Sector and proposed Private Sector rollout.

**mudskipper** · 24 May 2019, 08:34

Originally posted by CloudyTech View Post

Dear all,

I’ve made a petition – will you sign it?

Click this link to sign the petition:

Support Nigel Scragg’s petition - Petitions

My petition:

Repeal IR35 legislation in Public Sector and proposed Private Sector rollout.

Freelance workers and contractors have been treated unfairly by this ill conceived legislation since it's conception. It has been incorrectly used to investigate and prosecute many hardworking self employed business owners striving to be successful in today's world. IR35 is anti-business!

This is legislation that encourages envy because of supposed benefits to being self employed by some who are not self-employed themselves. Why should a self-employed person working under IR35 be treated the same as an employee regarding taxation? The self-employed under IR35 are not entitled to paid holiday or sickness and by implication have no job security. The HMRC make more money from VAT, Corporation Tax, Income Tax and Dividend Tax than from PAYE. IR35 is about discouraging strivers!
________________________________________

Thanks for your support.

The problem I have with many of these petitions (including this one) is that they show poor understanding of the legislation and changes. IR35 has existed in both public and private sectors for 20 years.

**northernladuk** · 24 May 2019, 09:19

Originally posted by mudskipper View Post

The problem I have with many of these petitions (including this one) is that they show poor understanding of the legislation and changes. IR35 has existed in both public and private sectors for 20 years.

Absolutely correct. I've lost count of the number of these polls created by some do gooder with only half an idea of what is going on. Many of them are actually more damaging than useful.

**CloudyTech** · 24 May 2019, 19:12

Good evening mudskipper and northernladuk.

Unfortunately, the petition web site only allows you to enter a limited number of characters, so you can't enter too much detail. Have either of you tried to start a petition on the HMG petition web site? If you have you have, you will know what I mean? Besides we live in a democracy (I think) so whether ill-informed or not I intend to make a stand against legislation I detest as being extremely unfair and not just accept it! From your response both of you are either in favour of IR35 or are indifferent to its consequences.

Lastly, I am not some do gooder with half an idea of what’s going on as I have been self-employed for the last 10 years and have seen the Cameron and May governments make this Blair originated legislation a whole lot worse! If both of you think you can do a better job then why don’t you create your own petition or otherwise stop sniping at me from the sidelines!

**mudskipper** · 24 May 2019, 22:45

Originally posted by CloudyTech View Post

Good evening mudskipper and northernladuk.

Unfortunately, the petition web site only allows you to enter a limited number of characters, so you can't enter too much detail. Have either of you tried to start a petition on the HMG petition web site? If you have you have, you will know what I mean? Besides we live in a democracy (I think) so whether ill-informed or not I intend to make a stand against legislation I detest as being extremely unfair and not just accept it! From your response both of you are either in favour of IR35 or are indifferent to its consequences.

Lastly, I am not some do gooder with half an idea of what’s going on as I have been self-employed for the last 10 years and have seen the Cameron and May governments make this Blair originated legislation a whole lot worse! If both of you think you can do a better job then why don’t you create your own petition or otherwise stop sniping at me from the sidelines!

I wasn't sniping, I was explaining why I don't sign most of these petitions. Take it as the constructive feedback it was intended as. There have been a number of properly worded ones that I have signed.

My understanding of both IR35 and the off payroll reforms (which is what I think you're probably wanting to repeal, although your petition doesn't mention them) is pretty good, and I'm far from indifferent to the consequences, having responded to the various consultations, having written to and met my MP to discuss the issues, having published linkedin articles, having blogged on the CEST tool, and having taken the time at various meetups to explain to both clients and freelancers what it's all about.

**JohntheBike** · 28 May 2019, 08:05

Originally posted by mudskipper View Post

I wasn't sniping, I was explaining why I don't sign most of these petitions. Take it as the constructive feedback it was intended as. There have been a number of properly worded ones that I have signed.

My understanding of both IR35 and the off payroll reforms (which is what I think you're probably wanting to repeal, although your petition doesn't mention them) is pretty good, and I'm far from indifferent to the consequences, having responded to the various consultations, having written to and met my MP to discuss the issues, having published linkedin articles, having blogged on the CEST tool, and having taken the time at various meetups to explain to both clients and freelancers what it's all about.

While not in any way seeming to judge the quality of this petition, I believe that all such petitions will add to the overall message about IR35. Yes, IR35 hasn't gone away, but so haven't the protests about it. We have seen that the use of inaccurate terms such as "Personal Service Company" have become ingrained in the debate through general usage. Even the term IR35 has become a common label of the "Intermediaries Legislation". So the constant raising of petitions, however they are worded, might have an affect on the issues. The contracting community should use every means at its disposal in order to fight IR35. However, unfortunately some representative organisations don't seem to accept that approach.

**northernladuk** · 28 May 2019, 09:23

Originally posted by JohntheBike View Post

While not in any way seeming to judge the quality of this petition, I believe that all such petitions will add to the overall message about IR35. Yes, IR35 hasn't gone away, but so haven't the protests about it. We have seen that the use of inaccurate terms such as "Personal Service Company" have become ingrained in the debate through general usage. Even the term IR35 has become a common label of the "Intermediaries Legislation". So the constant raising of petitions, however they are worded, might have an affect on the issues. The contracting community should use every means at its disposal in order to fight IR35. However, unfortunately some representative organisations don't seem to accept that approach.

I don't believe a badly worded petition that gets very few votes helps one iota. In fact I seem to remember someone doing one around the time the public sector changes that made us look more like money grabbing whiners. It was more likely to turn your average Joe public against us than garner any sympathy.

**wattaj** · 28 May 2019, 09:47

Originally posted by CloudyTech View Post

...I am not some do gooder with half an idea of what’s going on as I have been self-employed for the last 10 years and have seen the Cameron and May governments make this Blair originated legislation a whole lot worse!

Come back when you're time served.

**BrilloPad** · 28 May 2019, 09:49

Originally posted by northernladuk View Post

I don't believe a badly worded petition that gets very few votes helps one iota.

Petitions dont help one iota.

**Guesstimator** · 28 May 2019, 12:11

Originally posted by BrilloPad View Post

Petitions dont help one iota.

Totally agree.

Anyone else that feels the same, just pop your name down on the list below.

1. BrilloPad
2. Guesstimator.

Repeal IR35 legislation in Public Sector and proposed Private Sector rollout.