Originally posted by JohntheBike
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IR35 Retrospective Tax Claims
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Originally posted by northernladuk View PostNo one has been caught by retro taxation to date so I wouldn't be making it a decision point in whether you retire or not.
It's an interesting point that you talk about admitting your gig is inside yet not once have you mentioned leaving the client and getting a gig elsewhere. This smacks of permie-tractor to me for a number of reasons so maybe the inside determination isn't as far wrong as you think?
It's not me admitting the contract is inside, I don't think it is and have evidence to support, but the client already making noises about having contractors go agent PAYE raises the question 'does this look like they were always inside ?' to the HMRC
Yes I could go to another gig but I have a specialist skill set, that is in demand here but is rarely needed elsewhere, so would have to change to another arm of engineering, which is an option, but even if I did that, one of my other questions was would the HMRC look at all LTD Co the client has used (say in the last 12 months) even those that have stopped doing business with the client or just the ones that swap to PAYE through the agent ?Comment
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Originally posted by jk3838 View Postwould the HMRC look at all LTD Co the client has used (say in the last 12 months) even those that have stopped doing business with the client or just the ones that swap to PAYE through the agent ?
Why not get the client to take QDOS insurance?Comment
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Originally posted by jk3838 View Postwould the HMRC look at all LTD Co the client has used (say in the last 12 months) even those that have stopped doing business with the clientComment
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Originally posted by northernladuk View PostPAYE through a different agent. Why would you think that makes a difference? Would that even be possible if it did?
To explain further, I was asking would it be better to have a different agent for those rolling over to PAYE than the agent that was supplying the guy through a ltd co ? If the same agent before and after, same guy before and after, would that look more like same role before and after than same guy but different agent to break one string of the connectivity ? Again just after people's opinion ?Comment
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Originally posted by jamesbrown View PostThere is no retrospection proposed. When you talk about “retrospection” as any application of the tax law to historical cases, in keeping with the tax law *at the time*, then the term loses all meaning. It reveals a noddy understanding of tax. Retrospection is about back-porting new laws, not enforcing old ones.
If you are bum on seat noddy with 3, 4 and more years at your client then yes you should be worried but you should be worried now, not just past 2020. You're as likely to be investigated and be in trouble now as you are in a years time. I've no doubt we'll see a load of these people posting a month or less before it hits as they've just woken up and noticed how much trouble they are in. We saw it when the public sector hit so no doubt it will be the same in 2020.'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!Comment
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Originally posted by northernladuk View PostWhat you could do is try work with the agent and, if you are close enough, with the client to try and make them aware of the implications of just moving everyone inside. For a start blanket approaches are illegal, many will leave, to stop them leaving they'll have to put the rates up and so on. Maybe that will give them enough reason to look in to it properly.
If you give Seb Marley, or anyone at QDOS, a call and ask them for their service offering to help clients with determinations. If a thsird part professional helps them with their determinations maybe they will be happier to consider at least some people outside.
So if I got involved, could put forward your suggestion
Agent did say they were taking professional advice so may well be QDOS anyway, or may well be a 'stay calm and carry on' appeasementComment
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Originally posted by jk3838 View PostThanks for the replies
It's not me admitting the contract is inside, I don't think it is and have evidence to support, but the client already making noises about having contractors go agent PAYE raises the question 'does this look like they were always inside ?' to the HMRC
Yes I could go to another gig but I have a specialist skill set, that is in demand here but is rarely needed elsewhere,
so would have to change to another arm of engineering, which is an option, but even if I did that, one of my other questions was would the HMRC look at all LTD Co the client has used (say in the last 12 months) even those that have stopped doing business with the client or just the ones that swap to PAYE through the agent ?'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!Comment
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Originally posted by jk3838 View PostNot sure, hence the question to others who know far more than I
To explain further, I was asking would it be better to have a different agent for those rolling over to PAYE than the agent that was supplying the guy through a ltd co ? If the same agent before and after, same guy before and after, would that look more like same role before and after than same guy but different agent to break one string of the connectivity ? Again just after people's opinion ?
Who pays you is irrelevant. You need to stop thinking like that. It's your contract and your engagement with the client they are looking at e.g. working practices and the like. Who introduced you is irrelevant.'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!Comment
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Originally posted by jamesbrown View PostFirst, if you move to PAYE employment or to operating inside IR35 from being outside and there is no change in your working practices, then there must surely be a risk, yes. Second, if you’re moving to PAYE employment, there must be a change in your contract, as a minimum, and potentially your working practices too. Again, if there isn’t a change in working practices, the risk remains. Third, HMRC has stated publicly that their focus will be on enforcement of the new rules, rather than pursuit of historical cases, but I wouldn’t believe them. Fourth, even if they do use a change in status as a marker to dig deeper, it sounds like you have solid evidence of your current position.
In summary, there must be a risk, yes. If you stay there, you should seek to document how the working practices change as the status changes, but you also need to weigh whether the changes are meaningful and the headache is worthwhile (hint: they probably aren’t and it probably isn’t). Either way, it is premature to decide anything before you have a clear line from the client (and until the draft legislation is published).
Yes I appreciate nothing is published yet and this is just 'what I think is going to come and how they will deal with it
I guess I'm trying to understand the situation and risk, based on the above being what does actually happen, and decide what to do / plan for it, as much in advance as I can
You would not believe how disinterested the contractors here are about this (or may be you would) but according to the agent only about 15 out of a few hundred are even taking about it with themLast edited by jk3838; 26 June 2019, 09:44.Comment
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