A true B2B relationship should not touch IR35 A true B2B relationship should not touch IR35 - Page 4
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  1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by ComplianceLady View Post
    Because every Client wants that. Because IR35 risk was the contractors, those that understand it ask for certain provisions to underline their outside status. It's not an Agency's role to educate those that don't understand it (though we do try). One positive about the reforms is that it forces clients to understand what a proper B2B engagement looks like.
    I agree with the above but does it not put agencies into a difficult position?

    An agency role to date has been to put PEOPLE into people shaped slots at the end client.

    The agency role is not to find a set of SERVICES suitable for service shaped hole at the end client.

    It may be that the end client has not yet made the mental shift required to admit a services contract into a space where formerly there was a contractor/oversight role. Some end clients may never get there.

    Equally though, a PEOPLE agency moving into a SERVICE "seek and place" agency requires a number of changes, internally and externally, in order not only to do this, but importantly to be seen to be doing this.

    If I were in HMRC, post 2020 I'd be selecting all those agencies that have survived the reform and asking for details of who/what they have placed where and why.

    An agency that has failed to offer true, honest, genuine and actual SERVICES contracts will be on the first page of my list of ones to enquire further.

    I very much get the point that agencies need to be educating individuals as to how to navigate the new landscape, but they also need to look at themselves.
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  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by webberg View Post
    I agree with the above but does it not put agencies into a difficult position?

    An agency role to date has been to put PEOPLE into people shaped slots at the end client.

    The agency role is not to find a set of SERVICES suitable for service shaped hole at the end client.

    It may be that the end client has not yet made the mental shift required to admit a services contract into a space where formerly there was a contractor/oversight role. Some end clients may never get there.

    Equally though, a PEOPLE agency moving into a SERVICE "seek and place" agency requires a number of changes, internally and externally, in order not only to do this, but importantly to be seen to be doing this.

    If I were in HMRC, post 2020 I'd be selecting all those agencies that have survived the reform and asking for details of who/what they have placed where and why.

    An agency that has failed to offer true, honest, genuine and actual SERVICES contracts will be on the first page of my list of ones to enquire further.

    I very much get the point that agencies need to be educating individuals as to how to navigate the new landscape, but they also need to look at themselves.
    Agencies will respond to client demand, the key is for them to create/influence the right demand through education.

    Clients want to pay the price a limited co. charges for the skill set available but do not appreciate that comes with parameters.

    In the past having the 'parameters' conversation with Clients was harder, in sectors without huge candidate shortages the Client could just find someone else and could certainly find an Agency who was happy to supply someone without bothering the Client with conversations about unfettered substitution and MOO.

    Now it's the Client's problem, so we're able to legitimately say 'it's in your interests to work this way.'

    There are Agencies that will struggle but it will depend on sector and experience. There are challenges. We're working on how experience should be presented (i.e. the CV), how the work should be presented and how we manage payments. We've got good processes for the assessments and recording working practices ready. I should say as well it helps if you supply in other regions as the true B2B services model is much better enshrined in other countries.

    The biggest job at the moment is talking to as many clients as possible. Changing how we work is relatively straightforward, as long as we know it's not going to make the sell harder. One of the biggest challenges a compliant Agency has is a Client saying 'Agency B supply me people all the time and never ask about X or Y.'

  3. #33

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    There are posts elsewhere about the shift end clients and others have to make in terms of not asking for a CV for a person, but instead a set of services that can be provided by a business to a business.

    The more nimble will make these changes soon whereas those who do not, will put themselves and others at risk.

    I consider agencies will have a key role in this process.

    I also fear that some agencies will allow their own imperatives to colour their actions with both contractor and end client.
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