What are your clients doing with IR35 reform?

[webberg]

I'm also going to add a bit of a disclaimer and provoke a few thoughts.

This is something we have been looking at for perhaps 18 months now.

We have explored a number of ideas and rejected them for various reasons.

We do have one particular idea however that "may" (permissive and not imperative sense) be able to handle the majority of the tax and corporate issues.

When we discussed this with one of the bodies who accredit umbrellas and intermediaries, to say that they were skeptical would be an understatement.

It seems therefore that if we launched it (we have not), then it would not have accreditation at least until HMRC had investigated and given it a clean bill of health (or more likely, looked at it, opened an enquiry, stalled the process, made new legislation to prevent it), no stamp of approval would be forthcoming.

How many end clients would deal with that entity (assuming that PSLs become a thing of the past - itself something that will not happen overnight).

[PerfectStorm]

This'll be like GDPR. It'll start to be looked at after Christmas with a ramp up of actual work happening through March.

[BABABlackSheep]

Tread carefully.

Indeed.

Firstly thank you very much for taking the time to write such a detailed and informative reply. Excellent really.

Accountants have said there is a way to distribute income proportionally as a representation of profit contribution by each party. The company would initially be 3 people only.

I’m really thinking about alternatives. Looks like my current place will force anyone who they want to stay to go through an umbrella. They are currently “in discussions” with their agency providing contractors.

[webberg]

Indeed.

Accountants have said there is a way to distribute income proportionally as a representation of profit contribution by each party. The company would initially be 3 people only.

Yes there is but don't forget that real life happens and it may not always be just you three and you will be subject to the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune.

In other words, a tax planners neat diagram of day 1, is history by day 2.

[northernladuk]

Indeed.

Firstly thank you very much for taking the time to write such a detailed and informative reply. Excellent really.

Accountants have said there is a way to distribute income proportionally as a representation of profit contribution by each party. The company would initially be 3 people only.

I’m really thinking about alternatives. Looks like my current place will force anyone who they want to stay to go through an umbrella. They are currently “in discussions” with their agency providing contractors.

Don't forget this has already been rolled out in the Public sector so any contrived scheme you can think of will have already been tested and failed.

[SussexSeagull]

IF you want to start your own consultancy business with friends and/or colleagues because you think you have identified and area you can make money in then good luck to you but don't start one as a method to avoid IR35.

[BABABlackSheep]

IF you want to start your own consultancy business with friends and/or colleagues because you think you have identified and area you can make money in then good luck to you but don't start one as a method to avoid IR35.

Avoiding IR35 is not the primary goal. We've been discussing this for a while now. Its more about bringing together a small team(initially) of very experienced freelance professionals under one company banner and the synergies we can develop such as producing a single quality website, company promotion, placements, training and so on.

Who knows whats going to happen in the future with Taxation , but surely that's a better model than individual contractors not even pretending to be a legitimate company and having their wife/girlfriend/mum/goldfish given shares/salary for non-existent roles.

The reason this is more relevant now is the Private Sector reforms are changing the market. Myself, I've been offered going permie, or perhaps having to go through a umbrella company. Likely I'm going to leave my current contract soon, so I'm thinking about my options.

Excellent advice and comments so far, from this community. I may stick around

[jamesbrown]

How many end clients would deal with that entity (assuming that PSLs become a thing of the past - itself something that will not happen overnight).

Not sure why you're being cagey about your idea (I doubt you have something to protect, commercially) but, in the absence of clarity, it sounds a little "schemey" to me.

I don't think there are any clever wheezes involving intermediaries, of any kind, that won't end in tears.

The whole point of the intermediaries legislation is to look through intermediary structures and to form a hypothetical contract between the individual worker and the end client. The flexibility of the legislation is both a strength (allows considerable latitude in the application of the law) and a weakness (makes it hard to predict) in that context. It's a strength w/r to clever wheezes.

[SussexSeagull]

Avoiding IR35 is not the primary goal. We've been discussing this for a while now. Its more about bringing together a small team(initially) of very experienced freelance professionals under one company banner and the synergies we can develop such as producing a single quality website, company promotion, placements, training and so on.

Who knows whats going to happen in the future with Taxation , but surely that's a better model than individual contractors not even pretending to be a legitimate company and having their wife/girlfriend/mum/goldfish given shares/salary for non-existent roles.

The reason this is more relevant now is the Private Sector reforms are changing the market. Myself, I've been offered going permie, or perhaps having to go through a umbrella company. Likely I'm going to leave my current contract soon, so I'm thinking about my options.

Excellent advice and comments so far, from this community. I may stick around

I imagine every contractor has had a similar idea, even if just in passing, and I can see it working in some industries where you almost get a circuit form of the same people moving between projects (Gambling being one). I suppose you would have to price everything on deliverables as opposed to hours as otherwise the end client could conceivably say a consultant is still Inside IR35?

Good luck with it though.

[BABABlackSheep]

I imagine every contractor has had a similar idea, even if just in passing, and I can see it working in some industries where you almost get a circuit form of the same people moving between projects (Gambling being one). I suppose you would have to price everything on deliverables as opposed to hours as otherwise the end client could conceivably say a consultant is still Inside IR35?

Good luck with it though.

Yes. We're looking at a very niche market and yes fixed price on deliverable's rather than daily rates.

Thank you for the best wishes.