What are your clients doing with IR35 reform? What are your clients doing with IR35 reform? - Page 13
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  1. #121

    Should post faster

    KinooOrKinog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PerfectStorm View Post
    Cracking call about a roll this morning

    "it's a 3 month rolling contract because they're not sure what's happening about GDPR"

    "GDPR?"

    "I mean IR35"

    "Well, if the role's outside IR35 now, which I assume it is...?"

    "It is, yes"

    "...well then it'll be outside IR35 after, so they've got nothing to worry about"

    "..........the client's not sure what the solution is going to be"
    Hahaha sounds promising What are your clients doing with IR35 reform?

    Sent from my EVA-L09 using Contractor UK Forum mobile app
    If you don't have anything nice to say, say it sarcastically

  2. #122

    Still gathering requirements...


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    A very large financial services company.

    1. Go Permie
    2. Go under their agreed Umbrella provider
    3. Go home

  3. #123

    Fingers like lightning


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    Quote Originally Posted by BABABlackSheep View Post
    A very large financial services company.

    1. Go Permie
    2. Go under their agreed Umbrella provider
    3. Go home
    Are we allowed to know who?

  4. #124

    More time posting than coding

    Swamp Thing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BABABlackSheep View Post
    A very large financial services company.

    1. Go Permie
    2. Go under their agreed Umbrella provider
    3. Go home
    The FS company I'm currently with will go public in about 3 weeks' time to declare that from April 2020 all contractors will have to go through an umbrella - so effectively an inside decision.

    My question: I read somewhere else on this forum (think it might have been James Brown) that once a client declares like this, it becomes a matter of record that HMRC might subsequently use to say that pre-Apr 2020 the contractor was also really inside. And the client, having declared inside, would be arguing against the contractor in any court case.

    So, never mind working into Q1 2020 and getting your last invoice cleared before 01 April. Would you actually leave before client makes the announcement, thus severing the bread crumb trail?
    "My God, it's huge!!"

  5. #125

    Some things in Moderation

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swamp Thing View Post
    The FS company I'm currently with will go public in about 3 weeks' time to declare that from April 2020 all contractors will have to go through an umbrella - so effectively an inside decision.

    My question: I read somewhere else on this forum (think it might have been James Brown) that once a client declares like this, it becomes a matter of record that HMRC might subsequently use to say that pre-Apr 2020 the contractor was also really inside. And the client, having declared inside, would be arguing against the contractor in any court case.

    So, never mind working into Q1 2020 and getting your last invoice cleared before 01 April. Would you actually leave before client makes the announcement, thus severing the bread crumb trail?
    It's a rumour - who knows if it will happen.

    I would hand my notice in within the hour of the announcement...

  6. #126

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swamp Thing View Post
    The FS company I'm currently with will go public in about 3 weeks' time to declare that from April 2020 all contractors will have to go through an umbrella - so effectively an inside decision.

    My question: I read somewhere else on this forum (think it might have been James Brown) that once a client declares like this, it becomes a matter of record that HMRC might subsequently use to say that pre-Apr 2020 the contractor was also really inside. And the client, having declared inside, would be arguing against the contractor in any court case.

    So, never mind working into Q1 2020 and getting your last invoice cleared before 01 April. Would you actually leave before client makes the announcement, thus severing the bread crumb trail?
    The risk isn't zero or high, but greyscale. For example, what is the risk when you leave before an SDS but you have the same contract and WP of those who remained and received a negative SDS? Is it zero? The client would presumably argue against you under investigation. But, sure, once you have an actual negative SDS on record, then that is probably an increased risk. A separate issue is the hooks available to HMRC to join dots. This also increases risk. But it isn't as though there are zero hooks right now versus many hooks post April 2020. For example, there's the onshore intermediaries legislation that applies now (aka, agency reporting requirements). The only thing you can really control is your own WP and gathering of evidence to support them. That will always come in handy in all negative scenarios.

  7. #127

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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesbrown View Post
    The risk isn't zero or high, but greyscale. For example, what is the risk when you leave before an SDS but you have the same contract and WP of those who remained and received a negative SDS? Is it zero? The client would presumably argue against you under investigation. But, sure, once you have an actual negative SDS on record, then that is probably an increased risk. A separate issue is the hooks available to HMRC to join dots. This also increases risk. But it isn't as though there are zero hooks right now versus many hooks post April 2020. For example, there's the onshore intermediaries legislation that applies now (aka, agency reporting requirements). The only thing you can really control is your own WP and gathering of evidence to support them. That will always come in handy in all negative scenarios.
    I've clarified a similar situation with Markel Tax (previously Abbey Tax) with regards to my IR35 insurance. They have confirmed that if I accept an inside determination for the role that I currently have after April 2020, it will not prejudice my historical situation. So if HMRC come calling, they will handle it. Also, they have provided an assessment of my current contract and role, as being outside of IR35. So clearly, they would not be taking much risk if they did represent me.

  8. #128

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohntheBike View Post
    I've clarified a similar situation with Markel Tax (previously Abbey Tax) with regards to my IR35 insurance. They have confirmed that if I accept an inside determination for the role that I currently have after April 2020, it will not prejudice my historical situation. So if HMRC come calling, they will handle it. Also, they have provided an assessment of my current contract and role, as being outside of IR35. So clearly, they would not be taking much risk if they did represent me.
    If there's a change in WP, there's no reason it would cause problems. Indeed, it might even help. If there isn't a change in WP, then I doubt you interpreted their advice correctly. Think about it. "You admit that you're inside now, and you always worked in exactly the same way before now." Good luck with that.

  9. #129

    Still gathering requirements...


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    Quote Originally Posted by Swamp Thing View Post
    The FS company I'm currently with will go public in about 3 weeks' time to declare that from April 2020 all contractors will have to go through an umbrella - so effectively an inside decision.

    My question: I read somewhere else on this forum (think it might have been James Brown) that once a client declares like this, it becomes a matter of record that HMRC might subsequently use to say that pre-Apr 2020 the contractor was also really inside. And the client, having declared inside, would be arguing against the contractor in any court case.

    So, never mind working into Q1 2020 and getting your last invoice cleared before 01 April. Would you actually leave before client makes the announcement, thus severing the bread crumb trail?
    If they think about it though they can do it in a way that doesn't jeapordise or influence the historical risk. They don't have to make a determination for anyone engaged umbrella (PAYE), so if they say 'all contractors must workthrough umbrella X as we don't want to have to invest in an assessment process' it doesn't create any risk.

    I know that all large organisations got their phishing letters for IR35 recently so expect this has sharpened minds and left people in no doubt as to HMRC's approach.

  10. #130

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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesbrown View Post
    If there's a change in WP, there's no reason it would cause problems. Indeed, it might even help. If there isn't a change in WP, then I doubt you interpreted their advice correctly. Think about it. "You admit that you're inside now, and you always worked in exactly the same way before now." Good luck with that.
    If there's a change in WP
    in reality there is unlikely to be, although I guess the contract will change. So we come back to the old chestnut, which takes precedent, the contract or the reality of the engagement?

    "You admit that you're inside now, and you always worked in exactly the same way before now."
    That argument might have held water if it were not for the fact that the same organisation had already assessed some time ago that my current contract and working practises were not subject to the IR35 rules.

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