What are your clients doing with IR35 reform? What are your clients doing with IR35 reform? - Page 6
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  1. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesbrown View Post
    The stuff that probably matters most to them is the second-order, in-business, stuff, which they won't know about from the contractual relationship (except insofar as it restricts that). If Qdos, or anyone else, wants to build a picture of the hypothetical contract, then it makes sense to ask both parties and then to filter out the crud. Sounds to me like a client that is engaging with this properly.
    I don't disagree at all. Just a key point to the OP that it isn't him self assessing. He's answering questions to help the client make their mind up.
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  2. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by northernladuk View Post
    I don't disagree at all. Just a key point to the OP that it isn't him self assessing. He's answering questions to help the client make their mind up.
    Yup, agree with that. As long as a status expert is involved, they will probably come to the right decision, either way; can't ask for more than that.

  3. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by PerfectStorm View Post
    Would that be the same Orange Genie who run an umbrella? No prizes for guessing what direction their 'advice' will take...
    With a large scale reduction in the number of outside IR35 contractors more than likely, the large agency businesses will see that side of their income fall off a cliff. Therefore more will offer an umbrella as a replacement.

    There is nothing wrong in that per se.

    Where it starts to be a problem is where they persuade the client company that only "approved" umbrellas should be used.

    What does "approved" mean?

    You would hope it would mean a member of one of the bodies who count umbrella companies as fee paying members such as Professional Passport, FCSA etc.

    However, that still produces a long list of candidates. (And competition).

    We will therefore see the rise and rise of PSLs. Again not in itself an issue but the long term effect is that the contractor becomes a hostage to fortune, forced to pay whatever the umbrella wants and loses the choice of making their own judgement.

    In effect we risk seeing a cartel of large umbrellas who all talk to each other.

    It should be case that a contractor judged inside IR35 who opts for an umbrella (not compulsory) should be able (encouraged) to shop the market and not just be pushed into whatever the adviser to the client thinks is suitable.

    Will that happen?

    Probably not.
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  4. #54

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    Going perm in my current role. Lots of discussions on implications or IR35 etc and it is just easiest.

    Personally I am not worried about HMRC sniffing around at me being outside IR35 then perm as the roles are substantially different and I am happily outside in the current role and am happy to be challenged on it.

    (Current role project implementation, sole role limited to defined deliverables etc. New role in new department managing a team etc.)

  5. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by webberg View Post
    With a large scale reduction in the number of outside IR35 contractors more than likely, the large agency businesses will see that side of their income fall off a cliff. Therefore more will offer an umbrella as a replacement.

    There is nothing wrong in that per se.

    Where it starts to be a problem is where they persuade the client company that only "approved" umbrellas should be used.

    What does "approved" mean?

    You would hope it would mean a member of one of the bodies who count umbrella companies as fee paying members such as Professional Passport, FCSA etc.

    However, that still produces a long list of candidates. (And competition).

    We will therefore see the rise and rise of PSLs. Again not in itself an issue but the long term effect is that the contractor becomes a hostage to fortune, forced to pay whatever the umbrella wants and loses the choice of making their own judgement.

    In effect we risk seeing a cartel of large umbrellas who all talk to each other.

    It should be case that a contractor judged inside IR35 who opts for an umbrella (not compulsory) should be able (encouraged) to shop the market and not just be pushed into whatever the adviser to the client thinks is suitable.

    Will that happen?

    Probably not.
    When you say there's nothing wrong with this I think having an umbrella, who gains only from an inside determination, advising you on determinations is wrong.

    They've got something to gain from giving overly risk averse advice. I'm not saying they would but ultimately they are neither fee payer nor engager so have no statutory obligations, the only reason they're involved is in the hope (or contractual obligation in exchange for 'free' advice) that the inside determinations go umbrella with them so it stands to reason they are more likely to sway that way.

    I looked at the offerings from a few and concluded that no brolly is unbiased and the only assessor really worth partnering with is Qdos.

  6. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by ComplianceLady View Post
    I looked at the offerings from a few and concluded that no brolly is unbiased and the only assessor really worth partnering with is Qdos.
    Someone could argue that QDOS is selling insurance so it is to their benefit for outside determinations to be made, and that they also are not unbiased. But it obviously isn't to their benefit to insure people who should be inside, and have costly losses on their insurance. So if their bias shows it will be in encouraging clients to shift borderline roles to outside roles -- and I don't see how that hurts anyone.

    Do you have experience with Bauer & Cottrell? They have a very good reputation as well, wondered why you'd single out QDOS only.

  7. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by WordIsBond View Post
    Someone could argue that QDOS is selling insurance so it is to their benefit for outside determinations to be made, and that they also are not unbiased. But it obviously isn't to their benefit to insure people who should be inside, and have costly losses on their insurance. So if their bias shows it will be in encouraging clients to shift borderline roles to outside roles -- and I don't see how that hurts anyone.

    Do you have experience with Bauer & Cottrell? They have a very good reputation as well, wondered why you'd single out QDOS only.
    The full review by Qdos is decent (not the cheap one). However, I think there are smaller companies that do an as-good or better job, because they have a small number of seasoned experts and you will always get one of them (I'm thinking B&C and the artist formerly known as Abbey Tax, for example). That said, I think Qdos will be able to serve clients at scale.

    I don't see any value in offering tax-loss cover to a PSC post-April 2020, so it will be interesting to see whether their aggregate cover products like TLC35 are removed or dramatically cheapened to focus on non-IR35 losses. I cannot see a similar product being offered to clients, but who knows. I guess Qdos and the like will now focus on working with clients to make good/informed SDSs.

  8. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by takethebus View Post
    Reading a bit more into it they will be performing status determinations to a subset of contractors in August so assume it means I will be informed of their determination this month.

    Agree it sounds more plausible that it’s a feedback/information gathering survey for their own pilot, business planning.
    Have you thought about what you will do if they deem you inside IR35?

  9. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by WordIsBond View Post
    Someone could argue that QDOS is selling insurance so it is to their benefit for outside determinations to be made, and that they also are not unbiased. But it obviously isn't to their benefit to insure people who should be inside, and have costly losses on their insurance. So if their bias shows it will be in encouraging clients to shift borderline roles to outside roles -- and I don't see how that hurts anyone.

    Do you have experience with Bauer & Cottrell? They have a very good reputation as well, wondered why you'd single out QDOS only.
    Yeah that's fair comment - same as Agencies in my view. We're biased in that we want contracting to continue and to do that we ideally need to persuade clients with borderline roles to engage on an outside basis and find a way to manage the risk so they're willing to accept it - but that bias is probably in everyone's interests (unless it's an unscrupulous sort).

    Qdos are setup for en masse assessments wheras B&C are much smaller from what I'm aware. I looked at everyone offering the service and Qdos felt like a good fit.

  10. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesbrown View Post
    The full review by Qdos is decent (not the cheap one). However, I think there are smaller companies that do an as-good or better job, because they have a small number of seasoned experts and you will always get one of them (I'm thinking B&C and the artist formerly known as Abbey Tax, for example). That said, I think Qdos will be able to serve clients at scale.

    I don't see any value in offering tax-loss cover to a PSC post-April 2020, so it will be interesting to see whether their aggregate cover products like TLC35 are removed or dramatically cheapened to focus on non-IR35 losses. I cannot see a similar product being offered to clients, but who knows. I guess Qdos and the like will now focus on working with clients to make good/informed SDSs.
    As I understand it the insurance product will now cover the fee-payer & engager. They are encouraging the cost to be borne by the contractor (as they benefit from working outside). We are asking clients to foot the cost, we cover it for anyone we payroll if it's above a certain level.

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