What are your clients doing with IR35 reform?

[sludgesurfer]

My current client just asked me to sign a 12 month contract with a 2.5% rate escalation. I asked 4 permanent members of staff on the planned approach to IR35 reform as part of the contract negotiation. Responses as follows:

My main client focal point: "I don't know anything about IR35"

The contract specialist dealing with my contract: "we are still awaiting confirmation of the details have set up a working group and will be delivering details and determinations over the coming months"

Client Asset Manager: "we rely heavily on contractors as you know, this has been discussed as a business threat up to board level. Much of this is still being worked. But as yet, we don't know how it will play out"

Contract Manager (informal chat): "I'd expect us to use this as a means of separating out those contractors that we don't really care if they quit with those that we want to keep"

Basically, they're in a holding pattern...

[northernladuk]

My current client just asked me to sign a 12 month contract with a 2.5% rate escalation. I asked 4 permanent members of staff on the planned approach to IR35 reform as part of the contract negotiation. Responses as follows:

My main client focal point: "I don't know anything about IR35"

The contract specialist dealing with my contract: "we are still awaiting confirmation of the details have set up a working group and will be delivering details and determinations over the coming months"

Client Asset Manager: "we rely heavily on contractors as you know, this has been discussed as a business threat up to board level. Much of this is still being worked. But as yet, we don't know how it will play out"

Contract Manager (informal chat): "I'd expect us to use this as a means of separating out those contractors that we don't really care if they quit with those that we want to keep"

Basically, they're in a holding pattern...

12 months?? 2.5%???. Inside for you sonny Jim.

[sludgesurfer]

12 months?? 2.5%???. Inside for you sonny Jim.

I expect to be determined outside but I expect to use this as the catalyst I need to retire nonetheless. We settled on 15%.

[Grasser73]

Had a meeting with reps of the Agency/Client/Orange Genie triumvirate yesterday. ClientCo are as exasperated as anyone about the changes but are 'committed to using contractors' (over 300) and seeking to avoid a mass exodus.
The next step is that we all have to complete the IR35 Shield questionnaire IR35 Shield - Quickly assess and prove your IR35 compliance which will determine whether contracts are inside or outside. What options will be on the table as a result have not yet been decided.

[JohntheBike]

Had a meeting with reps of the Agency/Client/Orange Genie triumvirate yesterday. ClientCo are as exasperated as anyone about the changes but are 'committed to using contractors' (over 300) and seeking to avoid a mass exodus.
The next step is that we all have to complete the IR35 Shield questionnaire IR35 Shield - Quickly assess and prove your IR35 compliance which will determine whether contracts are inside or outside. What options will be on the table as a result have not yet been decided.

Is it really possible to write software which will take into account all the intricacies of case law? This is the criticism of CEST, apart from the fact that it assumes MOO. The judiciary have been at pains to point out that it isn't a box ticking exercise and the whole picture needs to be taken into account.

[jamesbrown]

Is it really possible to write software which will take into account all the intricacies of case law? This is the criticism of CEST, apart from the fact that it assumes MOO. The judiciary have been at pains to point out that it isn't a box ticking exercise and the whole picture needs to be taken into account.

No, it’s a flawed concept, at least until AI can operate like a status expert.

Equally, even a status expert can’t be sure. Put differently, case law evolves. Each determination is, by definition, case dependent.

[JohntheBike]

No, it’s a flawed concept, at least until AI can operate like a status expert.

Equally, even a status expert can’t be sure. Put differently, case law evolves. Each determination is, by definition, case dependent.

yes, legal opinion can be wrong

[BABABlackSheep]

Setting up business with other contractors?

Yeah certainly with my.mortgage I can't afford to go permie and drop my take home to such a level. So eitherninfind a high paying permie consulting job, an outside IR35 contract or I setup my own business with a few others. Oh and send 'er indoors out to work. Hard times in the first world

Can someone explain the "setup my own business with a few others" option?

I presume this would still be under a PSC? If so, then I can see how it would help the outside IR35 claim for such things as substitution, but surely the individuals within the company would still need to prove their own individual assignments were outside IR35. So how would this help?

[JoJoGabor]

Can someone explain the "setup my own business with a few others" option?

I presume this would still be under a PSC? If so, then I can see how it would help the outside IR35 claim for such things as substitution, but surely the individuals within the company would still need to prove their own individual assignments were outside IR35. So how would this help?

I was referring to time to go it alone and setup a true consultancy with a few others. We would all be directors, with some salary, some bonus depending on billing rate and some dividends is my initial thought.

[northernladuk]

Can someone explain the "setup my own business with a few others" option?

I presume this would still be under a PSC? If so, then I can see how it would help the outside IR35 claim for such things as substitution, but surely the individuals within the company would still need to prove their own individual assignments were outside IR35. So how would this help?

Commonly known as a clusterf**k