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Originally posted by PTP View PostAnd here's IPSE's response
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Sounds about right
Sent from my iPhone using Contractor UK ForumComment
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Originally posted by GhostofTarbera View Post404 page not found
Sounds about right
Sent from my iPhone using Contractor UK ForumComment
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I mentioned this in another thread, the key change here is employment status is king, not CEST or working practices.
The concept of ir35 is dead. For an engagement, you are either Self Employed, a worker or an employee and will be taxed accordingly to your employment status.
Which case law should a client co refer to when determining employment status, ET or FTT?Last edited by BlueSharp; 22 August 2019, 19:28.Make Mercia Great Again!Comment
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Originally posted by BlueSharp View PostI mentioned this in another thread, the key change here is employment status is king, not CEST or working practices.
The concept of ir35 is dead. For an engagement, you are either Self Employed, a worker or an employee and will be taxed accordingly to your employment status.
Which case law should a client co refer to when determining employment status, ET or FTT?
To follow your logic, a self employed (sole trader presumably) is outside IR35 because there is no intermediary?
An employee (defined how?) is outside IR35 because they are an employee and there is no intermediary.
A worker without an intermediary being present is perhaps one of the above.
A worker with an intermediary present is what?
Could be genuinely not an employee as defined for tax purposes, could be an employee for tax purposes.
And be clear that by that I mean taxed at the same rate as an employee without attaining that status in employment law.
You define the difference - for tax purposes - by applying the guidance in IR35, past cases, perhaps future cases, what little actual legislation exists, HMRC bias, agency bias, end client risk avoidance, etc, etc.
Not clear to me how you get to "IR35 is dead".Best Forum Adviser & Forum Personality of the Year 2018.
(No, me neither).Comment
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Originally posted by webberg View PostThem's bold statements.
To follow your logic, a self employed (sole trader presumably) is outside IR35 because there is no intermediary?
An employee (defined how?) is outside IR35 because they are an employee and there is no intermediary.
A worker without an intermediary being present is perhaps one of the above.
A worker with an intermediary present is what?
Could be genuinely not an employee as defined for tax purposes, could be an employee for tax purposes.
And be clear that by that I mean taxed at the same rate as an employee without attaining that status in employment law.
You define the difference - for tax purposes - by applying the guidance in IR35, past cases, perhaps future cases, what little actual legislation exists, HMRC bias, agency bias, end client risk avoidance, etc, etc.
Not clear to me how you get to "IR35 is dead".Comment
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Originally posted by webberg View PostThem's bold statements.
To follow your logic, a self employed (sole trader presumably) is outside IR35 because there is no intermediary? They are self-employed because that is the client determination of the employment status. If the self-employed person uses a PSC that is their choice.
An employee (defined how?) is outside IR35 because they are an employee and there is no intermediary. They are an employee because that is the client determination of the employment status
A worker without an intermediary being present is perhaps one of the above. They are a worker because that is the client determination of the employment status
A worker with an intermediary present is what? Irrelevant as it's the employment status determined by the client. Lots of Agencies provide temp workers to big organisations who have worker rights.
Could be genuinely not an employee as defined for tax purposes, could be an employee for tax purposes.
And be clear that by that I mean taxed at the same rate as an employee without attaining that status in employment law.
You define the difference - for tax purposes - by applying the guidance in IR35, past cases, perhaps future cases, what little actual legislation exists, HMRC bias, agency bias, end client risk avoidance, etc, etc.
Not clear to me how you get to "IR35 is dead". By making the client make a decision on the Employment Status of all its relationships and holding them liable for Employment tax if they get it wrong.
Comments above. HMRC won't care about the differentiation between a worker or employee as the tax is collected but an ET will.Last edited by BlueSharp; 23 August 2019, 13:45.Make Mercia Great Again!Comment
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I'm sure that Mr Bluesharp can answer for him/herself.Best Forum Adviser & Forum Personality of the Year 2018.
(No, me neither).Comment
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Originally posted by webberg View PostTo follow your logic, a self employed (sole trader presumably) is outside IR35 because there is no intermediary?
There needs to be an intermediary and, depending on the flavour of intermediary, you need to meet the (pre)-conditions of liability in part 2 ch 8 of ITEPA, notably:
(4)For this purpose a material interest means—
(a)beneficial ownership of, or the ability to control, directly or through the medium of other companies or by any other indirect means, more than 5% of the ordinary share capital of the company
All that said, deemed employment and employment are two completely different things, legislatively, and they merely share criteria for what an employment relationship looks like.Comment
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