IR35 and moving to fixed deliverable

[lancerkris]

Looking for some of you to bluntly poke holes in some of my IR35 thinking for my current situation, as I know a lot of you (not naming names ) are good at that.

Been working at ClientCo for just under 15 months, contract up for renewal 31st Dec

I am confident that I am outside IR35

• Contract reviewed by QDOS – Outside
• Working conditions strengthen this – no guidance, work off site and only visit client side when I need to which is tops 1 day a week, sometimes not at all
• Use all my own software, I’m only using one of their laptops as there is a security requirement with data access
• Direction, tech stack, when and how the work gets done is all up to me, I work different hours to everybody else which I decide

You get the picture

The project is just me, nobody else involved except for a permi manager I have status update reports with.

ClientCo also hire many other contractors but they are all in different situations – as I’m hardly ever on site I have no idea who they are or how they work so I can’t get a gauge on that.

If ClientCo determine me outside (which, obviously, I think they should given the above) – Great.

If not, and they take the blanket approach like many of the banks, I can either stay, leave, or *maybe* move to fixed price work

If I stay I’m leaving the previous 15 months open to investigation, even given the evidence described above. Does the client’s decision always win?

If I stay, but leave this project and join another, I’m guessing the above will still apply so that really makes no difference.

There is an option that I could renegotiate the current project to be a fixed price deliverable with a given timescale. This piece of work lends itself nicely to that given the setup, and I recon ClientCo would be up for it.

Do I wait for their determination before discussing that? Or, say we do go down this road, will that still leave a red flag waving for the previous months where I was engaged as a limited co contractor?

Right now given what's happening, if it's inside I recon it's gonna have to be leave or fixed price if I can make that work

[northernladuk]

If I stay I’m leaving the previous 15 months open to investigation, even given the evidence described above. Does the client’s decision always win?

Client has nothing to do with retrospective investigations. It's up to you to determine your status so its you v hmrc. Client may be asked for evidence.

If you are still with the client after they have determined the role you are doing right now inside then yes, doesn't matter what you do going forward. HMRC and client say it was inside so they'll want a look. It's on the role.

I'm not convinced changing to fixed price will make one iota to the history. You've changed the engagement method because the role was deemed inside and HMRC will get very interested.

[lancerkris]

yeah good points.

I just really hate leaving projects unfinished, but I guess if they deem everyone inside it's on them when folk turn around and leave (if said determinations were wrong, of course)

[northernladuk]

yeah good points.

I just really hate leaving projects unfinished, but I guess if they deem everyone inside it's on them when folk turn around and leave (if said determinations were wrong, of course)

Correct. Clients have to be held responsible for their determinations and if it costs them time and money then good. Maybe they will pull their socks up and do it better in the future.

It certainly happened In the public sector with some clients going for blanket determinations but are now largely outside.

I think it was Maslin that predicts a return to something normality in 18 months which would be a bit longer than the PS but sounds about right.

[cojak]

Also - how big is your client?

More than 50 employees?

[Maslins]

I think it was Maslin that predicts a return to something normality in 18 months which would be a bit longer than the PS but sounds about right.

That was cojak's prediction, don't blame me

Re the OP, fixed deliverable for fixed price should lead to a crystal clear outside IR35 IMHO. Obviously the tricky bit is getting nailed down exactly what is/isn't included, minimising risk of scope creep or fall out further down the line if your/their expectations turn out to be different.

[northernladuk]

That was cojak's prediction, don't blame me

Re the OP, fixed deliverable for fixed price should lead to a crystal clear outside IR35 IMHO. Obviously the tricky bit is getting nailed down exactly what is/isn't included, minimising risk of scope creep or fall out further down the line if your/their expectations turn out to be different.

Oops sorry.

It will be clear but only for the new role going forward. Won't help defend the old one.

[lancerkris]

Also - how big is your client?

More than 50 employees?

yes, massive and global, which is why I think they are waiting for the head office (not UK based) to make a decision

[northernladuk]

yes, massive and global, which is why I think they are waiting for the head office (not UK based) to make a decision

Would you not have to completely change your engagement and have to get on their PSL and other shenanigans before you can switch to fixed price? I would have thought it would be much harder to switch in an environment like that?

That said, if you can get in that that then you have an opportunity to expand exponentially in to a consultancy.

[lancerkris]

Would you not have to completely change your engagement and have to get on their PSL and other shenanigans before you can switch to fixed price? I would have thought it would be much harder to switch in an environment like that?

That said, if you can get in that that then you have an opportunity to expand exponentially in to a consultancy.

This is where it's new territory for me. Yes and if it's fixed deadline, I will most definitely have to hire help.

I haven't had the conversation yet, and i'm not sure If i should do it now or wait until they know what they are doing about IR35.