NHS Digital owe £4.3 million for getting IR35 wrong NHS Digital owe £4.3 million for getting IR35 wrong - Page 2
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  1. #11

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    NHS handed GBP4.3m IR35 bill despite using CEST

    So essentially the whole practice of run the CEST. If it shows outside, get the end client to sign it and HMRC will stand by it is a load of tulip.

    If HMRC wont even stand by their own tool then what is the point in running it in the first place!

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by MonkeysUncle View Post

    So essentially the whole practice of run the CEST. If it shows outside, get the end client to sign it and HMRC will stand by it is a load of tulip.

    If HMRC wont even stand by their own tool then what is the point in running it in the first place!
    Have HMRC ever said that?

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paralytic View Post
    Have HMRC ever said that?
    I am sure they did (initially at least) and I know its been mentioned on here a few times when people have asked, responses have been carry out CEST, if it shows outside get the client to sign it and this will hold up in an investigation.....seems not now

    EDIT: HMRC: We 'rigorously tested' IR35 tax-check tool... but have almost nothing to show for it • The Register

    An HMRC spokesman reiterated this, adding that the CEST service "reflects employment status case law and has been rigorously tested throughout development". HMRC is "confident" in its accuracy, he said, and will stand by the results it generates.
    Granted this was back in Feb

  4. #14

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    From the tools result page

    "HMRC will stand by the result given unless a compliance check finds the information provided is not accurate.

    HMRC will not stand by results achieved through contrived arrangements designed to get a particular outcome from the service. This would be treated as evidence of deliberate non-compliance with associated higher penalties.

    HMRC can review your taxes for up to 20 years."

  5. #15

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    So, the NHS gets hit with a tax bill, on the grounds that HMRC need the money to fund, e.g. the NHS.
    Boomers tend to believe in “freedom of speech”, which is a fascist concept used to spread hateful ideas.Given that hate speech is not possible without free speech, any defence of free speech is a form of hate speech. - Titania McGrath

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by mudskipper View Post
    From the tools result page

    "HMRC will stand by the result given unless a compliance check finds the information provided is not accurate.

    HMRC will not stand by results achieved through contrived arrangements designed to get a particular outcome from the service. This would be treated as evidence of deliberate non-compliance with associated higher penalties.

    HMRC can review your taxes for up to 20 years."
    I guess this will have been their get-out: The wrong information was provided to the tool, not that the tool was wrong.
    Last edited by Paralytic; 31st October 2019 at 11:30.

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paralytic View Post
    I guess will have been their get-out: The wrong information was provided to the tool, not that the tool was wrong.
    This is my point.
    It completely negates the CEST because even if you are outside, all they have to say is the wrong information was put in and so no they dont have to standy by it.

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by MonkeysUncle View Post
    This is my point.
    It completely negates the CEST because even if you are outside, all they have to say is the wrong information was put in and so no they dont have to standy by it.
    Deary me.

    This sounds like the comment on another thread about their "Not looking into past tax practices if found to be going from Outside to Inside IR35 from April 2020 - Unless fraud or criminal activities are suspected."

    In other words, nothing the HMRC say is worth the time spent reading it.

    If this were not the Professional forum, I would be adding many 'winker' emojis.

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by NotAllThere View Post
    So, the NHS gets hit with a tax bill, on the grounds that HMRC need the money to fund, e.g. the NHS.
    Someone should put that on the side of a bus.

    "We taxed NHS Digital £4.3 million because CEST is bobbins and we lied. Let's give that to the NHS instead"
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  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by mudskipper View Post
    From the tools result page

    "HMRC will stand by the result given unless a compliance check finds the information provided is not accurate.

    HMRC will not stand by results achieved through contrived arrangements designed to get a particular outcome from the service. This would be treated as evidence of deliberate non-compliance with associated higher penalties.

    HMRC can review your taxes for up to 20 years."
    HMRC will stand by the result given unless a compliance check finds the information provided is not accurate.
    they have already demonstrated the lie that this statement is in the Alcock case, where they tried to stop the CEST evidence being presented in court, without stating why they did not want the evidence submitted. I guess the case has been nobbled though, so any further details will not be forthcoming.

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