HMRC fail again...

[Paralytic]

Quiet a lot of us considering our options and quiet a number saying they have, or will close their companies for perm or umbrella. Amazed you haven't noticed.

I've seen lots of questions, and lots of people saying they've been offered perm, and lots of people saying their client will no longer engage PSC and they will have to go umbrella. But I've not seen many saying they're currently classifying themselves as outside but are accepting an inside gig.

However, I read the post I responded to as switching inside with the same client, but perhaps that's not what was meant.

[simes]

So in effect, the HMRC can dither around, cock it up, look stupid, and even if the defendant is found innocent of all charges, he can still end up financially ruined? And taking a permanent job too because he's become spiritually ruined...

Well, I hope he can recover costs from the HMRC, and then some. It is quite disgusting.

[dx4100]

So in effect, the HMRC can dither around, cock it up, look stupid, and even if the defendant is found innocent of all charges, he can still end up financially ruined? And taking a permanent job too because he's become spiritually ruined...

Well, I hope he can recover costs from the HMRC, and then some. It is quite disgusting.

I think you have to apply to the judge and you would have to prove HMRC didn’t ever have a case. I would imagine that would in reality be quiet hard.

[simes]

Hmm. In terms of financial viability then, irrespective of win or lose, you're stuffed - unless one has the Insurance for Legal Aid.

Good to know. Cheers.

[dx4100]

Hmm. In terms of financial viability then, irrespective of win or lose, you're stuffed - unless one has the Insurance for Legal Aid.

Good to know. Cheers.

For me I wouldn't entertain contracting without

• Tax investigation insurance
• Professional liability insurance
• Public liability insurance
• Accountant
• Tax loss insurance

Just a cost of doing business...

[drmouse]

So in effect, the HMRC can dither around, cock it up, look stupid, and even if the defendant is found innocent of all charges, he can still end up financially ruined?

This is a big problem with the justice system in general.

A good friend of mine was prosecuted for a serious crime. He had to relocate back to the UK (was living and working in a middle eastern country) and pay a fortune for a decent lawyer to defend him. His entire family was severely disrupted and he was nearly bankrupted, although he counts it as money well spent as he was found not guilty of all charges and remains a free man. The courts did award "costs", but only at legal aid rates.

Another guy I know was prosecuted for assault. There had been a bar fight, he had been knocked out before throwing a punch and was found unconscious on the floor. Several eye witnesses told the police this, but he was prosecuted anyway. He turned up at court to defend himself several times, each time costing him for a barrister for a week, only to be told the prosecution needed more time. Eventually, completely out of money and unable to take the stress of the investigation he changed his plea to guilty and accepted time in prison for a crime he did not commit: It was a lesser punishment than the trial (or lack thereof).

The point of all this being that even an investigation can end up being quite a severe punishment in itself, let alone a trial and the cost of defence.

[Lockhouse]

At the end of my IR35 case (four years, five contracts, all found outside) all I wanted to do was walk away. I was angry but no longer had the stomach for a fight. It can change you and not necessarily in a good way. You have to think of your health, that of your family and to know when to stop.

[JohntheBike]

So in effect, the HMRC can dither around, cock it up, look stupid, and even if the defendant is found innocent of all charges, he can still end up financially ruined? And taking a permanent job too because he's become spiritually ruined...

Well, I hope he can recover costs from the HMRC, and then some. It is quite disgusting.

there is case law where a builder successfully sued HMRC, so it's not impossible.

[JohntheBike]

perhaps I was too cynical believing that this case had been nobbled!

[BrilloPad]

At the end of my IR35 case (four years, five contracts, all found outside) all I wanted to do was walk away. I was angry but no longer had the stomach for a fight. It can change you and not necessarily in a good way. You have to think of your health, that of your family and to know when to stop.

This is very true.

Sadly for many of us in one scheme no longer mentioned on CUK, 11.5 years of fighting. Still no end in sight. And no way out - its fight or bankruptcy.

I am still bitter - whenever people ask for support for LC or 2020 changes, I usually think (and sometimes post) "where were you when we needed support?".

One thing that does give me hope. https://www.loanchargejustice.com/ . Taking HMRC officers to court for lying. Its hard to see anything else stopping HMRC.