outside IR35 before..inside after?

[dsc]

How do you know it's QDOS advising the client that everyone is inside rather than the opposite, but the client deciding to stick everyone inside to reduce risk?

[northernladuk]

Hi

I am currently contracting on a large government contract for a large IT services company. QDOS have been engaged to consult on the status determination for all contractors. All contractors have been deemed inside IR35, however, QDOS themselves have reviewed a number of contracts for the period between April 2014 and March 31st 2020 and deemed them to be outside IR35.

The agency involved has now contacted all contractors and made them aware that going forward all contractors will be inside IR35 and subject to PAYE working via an umbrella company on their PSL. Clearly any contracts post March 31st (when our current contracts end) will be new contracts rather than extensions and are going to be worded differently to make sure we are absolutely water tight cast iron inside IR35.

It makes you wonder why QDOS are advising companies whose contractors, by their own status determination based on current contracts, are outside IR35 should then be deemed inside in the new financial year. Clearly QDOS are advising companies not on whether their contractors are inside or outside IR35, but how they can make sure the are inside.

It seems to me this is morally corrupt and they are just playing both sides off against each other. Advise all companies their contractors are inside IR35 and take a cut, scare the sh1t out of all contractor and rake in the insurance premiums! Lets not forget IR35 rules are not changing, only the party that makes the status determination.

Surely all this will do is reduce the tax take from accountants, stamp duty, vat, mortgage providers, specialty contractor service providers et al let alone the 20% vat paid every time you make a purchase!

Rant over....

Because QDOS are advising on old contracts. The client is making determinations on the role and how they want them to run. These are not related. Even if QDOS advises the contracts are outside the client may turn round and say 'actually, we don't want to allow substitutes anymore and we want to tell the contractors what they will do'. QDOS will say well that's not what your contracts say and the client says so what so QDOS have to rule the new roles inside.

[dsc]

Also, read this:

https://www.contractoruk.com/forums/...nt-thrust.html

Clients are often throwing contractors under the bus, simply claiming that it was never possible to do certain things that kept them outside, even though it's in their contracts. Not sure if this is deliberate to push all contracts inside, or simply admitting that they were always inside, but it does happen and in this case Qdos can only nod along and say, yup inside indeed.

[Qdos Contractor]

Hi

I am currently contracting on a large government contract for a large IT services company. QDOS have been engaged to consult on the status determination for all contractors. All contractors have been deemed inside IR35, however, QDOS themselves have reviewed a number of contracts for the period between April 2014 and March 31st 2020 and deemed them to be outside IR35.

The agency involved has now contacted all contractors and made them aware that going forward all contractors will be inside IR35 and subject to PAYE working via an umbrella company on their PSL. Clearly any contracts post March 31st (when our current contracts end) will be new contracts rather than extensions and are going to be worded differently to make sure we are absolutely water tight cast iron inside IR35.

It makes you wonder why QDOS are advising companies whose contractors, by their own status determination based on current contracts, are outside IR35 should then be deemed inside in the new financial year. Clearly QDOS are advising companies not on whether their contractors are inside or outside IR35, but how they can make sure the are inside.

It seems to me this is morally corrupt and they are just playing both sides off against each other. Advise all companies their contractors are inside IR35 and take a cut, scare the sh1t out of all contractor and rake in the insurance premiums! Lets not forget IR35 rules are not changing, only the party that makes the status determination.

Surely all this will do is reduce the tax take from accountants, stamp duty, vat, mortgage providers, specialty contractor service providers et al let alone the 20% vat paid every time you make a purchase!

Rant over....

I think there's probably a bit more to this than meets the eye. I don't know who the parties involved are, but we're certainly not advising companies on how to ensure contractors are inside IR35.

It's possible that the ultimate end client in this particular scenario has taken a blanket/policy stance on the use of PSCs in the supply chain. If that is the case then there isn't a great deal that we, the IT services company or the agency can do about it.

[beatfreak]

Because QDOS are advising on old contracts. The client is making determinations on the role and how they want them to run. These are not related. Even if QDOS advises the contracts are outside the client may turn round and say 'actually, we don't want to allow substitutes anymore and we want to tell the contractors what they will do'. QDOS will say well that's not what your contracts say and the client says so what so QDOS have to rule the new roles inside.

Aw bless, imagine believing this wasn't just a case of end clients wanting to insulate them from any liability! I think I pointed out the determination contractors had received were for "old" contracts as you call them, current to me. Of course the client may now turn around and say we wont allow substitution or they wish to tell contractors what they will do, did you not read my post?

[beatfreak]

I think there's probably a bit more to this than meets the eye. I don't know who the parties involved are, but we're certainly not advising companies on how to ensure contractors are inside IR35.

It's possible that the ultimate end client in this particular scenario has taken a blanket/policy stance on the use of PSCs in the supply chain. If that is the case then there isn't a great deal that we, the IT services company or the agency can do about it.

Excellent, the response I was after, and from the horses mouth. Thank you.

[beatfreak]

I think there's probably a bit more to this than meets the eye. I don't know who the parties involved are, but we're certainly not advising companies on how to ensure contractors are inside IR35.

It's possible that the ultimate end client in this particular scenario has taken a blanket/policy stance on the use of PSCs in the supply chain. If that is the case then there isn't a great deal that we, the IT services company or the agency can do about it.

Can I just ask whether any consultancy that is provided by Qdos regarding IR35 is based on current working practices and contracts or potential working practices/contracts for the next financial year?

[Kanaiya]

I think there's probably a bit more to this than meets the eye. I don't know who the parties involved are, but we're certainly not advising companies on how to ensure contractors are inside IR35.

It's possible that the ultimate end client in this particular scenario has taken a blanket/policy stance on the use of PSCs in the supply chain. If that is the case then there isn't a great deal that we, the IT services company or the agency can do about it.

What happens in this schenrio if HMRC sends an enquiry letter with retrospective. Will QDOS pay for the retrospective ?

[northernladuk]

What happens in this schenrio if HMRC sends an enquiry letter with retrospective. Will QDOS pay for the retrospective ?

Only if they win the investigation. If there is little chance of success then they won't even contend it.

[Qdos Contractor]

Can I just ask whether any consultancy that is provided by Qdos regarding IR35 is based on current working practices and contracts or potential working practices/contracts for the next financial year?

If we're doing audit work for companies we will review where things are currently and provide recommendations on changes (whether it be contracts, policies or working practices). Generally we will only start the individual determination process once a company has had the opportunity to implement our recommendations.