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IR35 application to IT projects is flawed.

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    IR35 application to IT projects is flawed.

    I have been contracting for 4 years and currently in a right pickle regarding the April changes as I am still waiting for current client to announce their intentions, but given it's a large defence company I suspect it will be a blanket inside IR35. I digress, but the real reason I am posting is that if you think about IR35 from an IT perspective it just does not work. Take for example an existing project that has budget for new user functionality. The project is agile, uses Jira and has fortnightly sprint. The SCRUM master (hate that term) is a permie who with the contractors discusses what's on the sprint board.

    Each contractor is assigned a number of Jira tasks, but then within the bounds of the existing code base is a given a free reign to implement and test the changes and where appropriate refactor.

    Of course each contractor is to a certain extent managed, otherwise how else do you run an agile project with Jira if you don't tell people what they are working on for the sprint. We all know it's not practical to just have a free for all and let contractors just pick and choose what they want to do, so I struggle to understand how HMRC envisage companies engage with IT contractors post April 2020 for such projects?

    Unless firms are going to tender out work with very detailed requirements (yeah right) then how can they utilise IT contractors going forward. In 20 years of IT I have only once had a BA who would create detailed use cases. In all other scenarios I have had to liaise directly with end users to obtain said requirement.

    Seems to me it's a terribly thought out mess and the simple approach would have been one based on tenure with a no return period of say 6 months. Eg, you fall inside if you remain contracting at the same place for 12 or 24 months.

    #2
    Duration is a tricky one but I'd be inclined to agree that if any project is going to take more than 24 months (when employee rights fully kick in) then you should be hiring permanent staff, not freelancers.

    A long project will need different resource at different times so it's possible to package the work up into a B2B friendly statements of work but there will always be roles that are needed to see the whole thing from start to end, not just at the management end. Consistency is key in large projects.

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      #3
      Scrum masters and sprints. Total cringe. Have been working in IT projects since 2008 and thankfully have never heard these used.

      It does make me think that one day I will inevitably fail interviews when I have no idea what they're talking about. I'll be qualified for the job but got to be down with the kids these days.

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        #4
        Originally posted by juckky View Post

        Of course each contractor is to a certain extent managed, otherwise how else do you run an agile project with Jira if you don't tell people what they are working on for the sprint. We all know it's not practical to just have a free for all and let contractors just pick and choose what they want to do, so I struggle to understand how HMRC envisage companies engage with IT contractors post April 2020 for such projects?
        It is very simple to HMRC, the Contractors will be inside IR35.

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          #5
          Originally posted by Acme Thunderer View Post
          It is very simple to HMRC, the Contractors will be inside IR35.
          You mean the legislation is not for the benefit of contractors. Stone me

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            #6
            Originally posted by genius View Post
            Scrum masters and sprints. Total cringe. Have been working in IT projects since 2008 and thankfully have never heard these used.

            It does make me think that one day I will inevitably fail interviews when I have no idea what they're talking about. I'll be qualified for the job but got to be down with the kids these days.
            I wish I too had never heard of it as it's complete *!%$

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              #7
              Originally posted by Acme Thunderer View Post
              It is very simple to HMRC, the Contractors will be inside IR35.
              IR35 is owned by the Employer NI team - and it's essential that Employers NI generates the £70bn a year it currently does.
              Last edited by eek; 1 January 2020, 20:35.
              merely at clientco for the entertainment

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                #8
                Originally posted by ladymuck View Post
                Duration is a tricky one but I'd be inclined to agree that if any project is going to take more than 24 months (when employee rights fully kick in) then you should be hiring permanent staff, not freelancers.

                A long project will need different resource at different times so it's possible to package the work up into a B2B friendly statements of work but there will always be roles that are needed to see the whole thing from start to end, not just at the management end. Consistency is key in large projects.
                Modern complex cloud-native systems can't be delivered in two years like the olden days; even quite straightforward projects look like 3-5 years. Nevertheless, IR35 rollout will make us all "temps" whose jobs will evaporate in the weeks after delivery. Unless the government fixes this dog's dinner soon permanent employment in the IT sector will become relatively rare outside the public sector.

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                  #9
                  Originally posted by TwoWolves View Post
                  Modern complex cloud-native systems can't be delivered in two years like the olden days; even quite straightforward projects look like 3-5 years. Nevertheless, IR35 rollout will make us unemployed. Unless the government fixes this dog's dinner soon permanent employment in the IT sector will all go offshore
                  FTFY I'm not much of a tinfoil hatter conspiracist really but I do sense the malign influence of international capitalists in all this.

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                    #10
                    This has been discussed before but if there are employees in the agile team along with contractors and both have the same line management arrangements then it would be hard to consider a contractor in this situation as self-employed.

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