IR35 review roundtables

[northernladuk]

Yawn....

[BR14]

Yawn....

quite

[NeedTheSunshine]

[QUOTE=JohntheBike;2717809]

Thing is, most contractors are burying their head in the sand. If you can't get people to turn up for a peaceful protest, get in touch with their MP etc even though HMRC could potentially be knocking at their door in the not too distant future asking for large amounts of back tax how will you find 100s of candidates to challenge a FTT determination? And you need pockets. Plus the stress of dragging it out for years and years as it rumbles through the courts. That's why contractors are easy pickings.[/QUOTe



My ET cost £2000 in 2000 and the EAT cost £6000 in 2002

£2000 is £3,391.78 in today's money.

£6000 is ££9,834.27 in today's money

To go all the way to the bitter/happy end through the tax tribunal process (assuming appeals are made etc) the costs are significantly more than that. High six figures. And this is a biggy for HMRC.

Employment tribunals are totally different and are not related in any way. And if I wanted employment rights I would be a perm employee.

[JohntheBike]

[QUOTE=NeedTheSunshine;2717814]

To go all the way to the bitter/happy end through the tax tribunal process (assuming appeals are made etc) the costs are significantly more than that. High six figures. And this is a biggy for HMRC.

Employment tribunals are totally different and are not related in any way. And if I wanted employment rights I would be a perm employee.

And if I wanted employment rights I would be a perm employee

it's not about wanting employment rights, which none of us want. But when we are faced with the lying and devious HMRC, any weapon we can use against the system is fair game. You cannot deny that using the ET is clearly such a weapon. It worked for Susan Winchester, and it might still work for the current case that IPSE are supporting, even without any future cases.

It's very unlikely that an individual would appeal to the FTT. It would normally be the other way around, i.e. HMRC takes the individual to the FTT I would hope that anyone who gets that far has tax investigation insurance.

What baffles me is why none of those in the BBC who have been judged as subject to IR35 and have been obliged to pay the tax bills haven't approached the ET. I can only guess that the BBC has somehow defused their situations.

[FIERCE TANK BATTLE]

Nah the CEST tool is great, here's my client's responses to the questions:


> Does your client have the right to reject a substitute?
Yes, we don't want just anyone coming in, if you're sick for 2 months then we'll have to hire someone else, rather than get someone through you.

Does your client have the right to decide how the work is done?
> Yes we both decide, for example if we want to use kanban or scrum then we want the contractor to do that too.

> Does your client have the right to decide your working hours?
Yes we both decide because if there is a meeting for example we would want the contractor to attend.

> Does your client have the right to decide where you do the work?
We both decide because while we don't mind the contractor working from home or choosing their own hours there might be a time that we want them to attend a meeting or be in the office for that kind of reason.

> If the client was not happy with your work, would you have to put it right?
No, we don't ask people to do that, it's just not our policy to ask people to fix it so we wouldn't do that.

> Have you done any self-employed work of a similar nature for other clients in the last 12 months?
Well I put yes because you had a job before you worked on this contract right


Looking good guys. I'm sure that 70% isn't to do with confusing questions being sent to managers that had to google what IR35 was when orders came from above asking them to run through the tool.

If we can't stop IR35 at least we could perhaps ask HMRC to improve the explanations of its questions?

(Incidentally the reality if my situation is that, I decide exactly how I will implement their requirements, I am accountable to no-one in that regard, I liase with the end client to check things are going smoothly, dial into meetings and spend most of my time in their office because it's much easier. There is a strict statement of work. I work from home as and when I like, work only 3 days per week as per my contract, unless they request more in which case I sometimes accept and sometimes reject. I obviously offer to correct work and I have not done any self employed work in the last 12 months. But according to the tool, I am 'undetermined'.)