Retrospective IR35 investigations

[jamesbrown]

OK, so please explain.

It’s quite simple. A NI number is not required for PAYE/RTI.

[JohntheBike]

It’s quite simple. A NI number is not required for PAYE/RTI.

so how can an employer determine if the employee should pay NI? What if an employer deducts NI when it's not due?

[jamesbrown]

so how can an employer determine if the employee should pay NI? What if an employer deducts NI when it's not due?

In the first instance, HMRC will use the other information available to them to identify your NI number and issue it, notably your name, DOB and passport number.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

so how can an employer determine if the employee should pay NI? What if an employer deducts NI when it's not due?

Whether or not you should pay NI has nothing to do with your NI number.
The rules on who pays NI and what rate are pretty complex - have a look at the government stuff online if you have a few hours to spare. They have nothing at all to do with having (or not having) an NI number.

[JohntheBike]

Whether or not you should pay NI has nothing to do with your NI number.
The rules on who pays NI and what rate are pretty complex - have a look at the government stuff online if you have a few hours to spare. They have nothing at all to do with having (or not having) an NI number.

Whether or not you should pay NI has nothing to do with your NI number.

so, what information is used to determine that anyone is not liable to pay NI?

[Peoplesoft bloke]

so, what information is used to determine that anyone is not liable to pay NI?

As I explained, the rules are complex, but they have NOTHING to do with your NI number.

As one simple example - if you are aged over state pension age, you don't pay NI. Employers/Brollies are expected to know this from DOB of the worker measured against published state pension ages. They couldn't in any way derive it from your NI number.

I'm not going answer any more questions on this - the information is all out there if you want to actually find out how the system works rather than assuming you know when you clearly don't.

[BR14]

As I explained, the rules are complex, but they have NOTHING to do with your NI number.

As one simple example - if you are aged over state pension age, you don't pay EE's NI. Employers/Brollies are expected to know this from DOB of the worker measured against published state pension ages. They couldn't in any way derive it from your NI number.

I'm not going answer any more questions on this - the information is all out there if you want to actually find out how the system works rather than assuming you know when you clearly don't.

ftfy

[Peoplesoft bloke]

ftfy

Fair point well made.

[BR14]

from HMG
'What to do when an employee reaches State Pension age
You need to update your payroll records when one of your employees reaches State Pension age so they stop paying National Insurance.

Reporting and paying
Change their National Insurance category letter to ‘C’ in your payroll software - this means you’ll stop deducting National Insurance from their pay. You still need to pay employer’s contributions for them.

Carry on reporting year-to-date information under the old category letter until the end of the tax year.

which means yout brolly will deduct them.
and your Ltd should too.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

from HMG
'What to do when an employee reaches State Pension age
You need to update your payroll records when one of your employees reaches State Pension age so they stop paying National Insurance.

Reporting and paying
Change their National Insurance category letter to ‘C’ in your payroll software - this means you’ll stop deducting National Insurance from their pay. You still need to pay employer’s contributions for them.

Carry on reporting year-to-date information under the old category letter until the end of the tax year.

which means yout brolly will deduct them.
and your Ltd should too.

100% true and I hurriedly retracted my original comment.

The substantive points remain -

NI number doesn't tell you anything about whether or not NI needs to be deducted.

Johnthebike doesn't know what he's talking about (in relation to NI numbers)