HMRC view on blanket ban? Have we all seen this- taken off LinkedIn HMRC view on blanket ban? Have we all seen this- taken off LinkedIn
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  1. #1

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    Default HMRC view on blanket ban? Have we all seen this- taken off LinkedIn

    Hopefully this stops the blanket ban considerations or reverts those already made.
    ESM10014 - Employment Status Manual - HMRC internal manual - GOV.UK


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  2. #2

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    No No No It won’t in 99% of cases

    Unless I missed the bit about the end client just declaring they will no longer engage PSC via agents as most are doing


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  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by GhostofTarbera View Post
    No No No It won’t in 99% of cases

    Unless I missed the bit about the end client just declaring they will no longer engage PSC via agents as most are doing


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    +1 - Microsoft have adopted the viewpoint it's not worth the risk - no contractors via a PSC for direct work - we don't know what the secondary angle is yet but that would only impact work within UK.

    The impact on their European consulting model will be substantial - UK contractors provided all the back fill across Europe and made up half the team.
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  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by eek View Post
    +1 - Microsoft have adopted the viewpoint it's not worth the risk - no contractors via a PSC for direct work - we don't know what the secondary angle is yet but that would only impact work within UK.

    The impact on their European consulting model will be substantial - UK contractors provided all the back fill across Europe and made up half the team.
    Surely backfill, by it’s very nature, should be inside IR35 anyway.
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    Sadly I agree with the above. Few companies are making blanket determinations, they are making policy statements to not use workers via a certain engagement route.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lance View Post
    Surely backfill, by it’s very nature, should be inside IR35 anyway.
    Yep but that's not the current reality

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lance View Post
    Surely backfill, by it’s very nature, should be inside IR35 anyway.
    To a point but your typical contractor is usually a specialist in an area while the internal staff are more generalist - for instance I came in for security based work as I know the internal security options better than anyone outside the core product team.
    Last edited by eek; 9th February 2020 at 10:32.
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    Quote Originally Posted by eek View Post
    To a point but your typical contractor is usually a specialist in an area while the internal staff are more generalist - for instance I came in for security based work as I know the internal security options better than anyone outside the core product team.
    that doesn't surprise me.
    Intune/O365/Azure/AIP per chance?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lance View Post
    that doesn't surprise me.
    Intune/O365/Azure/AIP per chance?
    Dynamics / PowerApps - it's a different security model internal to the product with multiple options leading to a single point of failure.

    Most people know bits about it but there are a lot of nuances that throw most people and then some nasty cliffs as people start using it.
    Last edited by eek; 9th February 2020 at 10:45.
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  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by GhostofTarbera View Post
    No No No It won’t in 99% of cases

    Unless I missed the bit about the end client just declaring they will no longer engage PSC via agents as most are doing


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    Well we’ll have to see how this all plays out then. I was reading a lot into this section :

    “Examples of behaviours which do not constitute reasonable care include, but are not limited to:

    Determining that every worker who provides their services through an intermediary is caught by the off-payroll working rules without giving any consideration to the specific facts of each individual case.
    Determining that the off-payroll working rules apply to a large group of workers who have some variations between the work that is being carried out, without giving proper consideration to the different working arrangements for each worker.”

    Surely even clients must be confused by now. What is reasonable care really....


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