Assessed as Inside from April or a Blanket Ban - it's time to leave Assessed as Inside from April or a Blanket Ban - it's time to leave
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  1. #1

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    Default Assessed as Inside from April or a Blanket Ban - it's time to leave

    Stealing it from here and Dave Chaplin here but I want to make things 100% clear in a new thread


    This is from HMRC's internal manual and directly contridicts what HMRC have been saying in public (until you remove the word automatic from that statement)

    Where it is agreed that a worker who has previously been regarded as self-employed should now be treated as employed, then you will need to consider whether to pursue the employer for NICs and tax for back years. The law and practice relating to NICs and tax is different, so you will need to consider each separately.
    ESM0117 - Employment Status Manual - HMRC internal manual - GOV.UK

    And it means that if you were outside and are going inside HMRC will have to look at your situation and decide what to do and that will be to ask you for a large cheque.
    merely at clientco for the entertainment

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    This was published back in November last year, the above does appear to contradict #7 on page 2

    https://assets.publishing.service.go...Factsheet_.pdf

    EDIT: in light of information that ESM0117 has nothing to do with Ltd Co contractors, Dave "tenuous connection" Chaplin's post is misleading at best.
    Last edited by ladymuck; 13th February 2020 at 11:49. Reason: Updated to reflect new information

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    Does this mean they will pursue the client (employer) for Employer's NICs?

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    Quote Originally Posted by zonkkk View Post
    Does this mean they will pursue the client (employer) for Employer's NICs?
    It reads that way but you can bet the fine will end up in your lap and you out of a job.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by zonkkk View Post
    Does this mean they will pursue the client (employer) for Employer's NICs?
    The answer to that is all over the first thread and the link. Quick read might help you?
    'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by zonkkk View Post
    Does this mean they will pursue the client (employer) for Employer's NICs?
    Yes - and that employer is actually your limited company. Please don't ask me to explain this further I have better things to do with the rest of this month (and it will take that long to cover all the intrinsic bits).
    merely at clientco for the entertainment

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    Quote Originally Posted by ladymuck View Post
    This was published back in November last year, the above does appear to contradict #7 on page 2

    https://assets.publishing.service.go...Factsheet_.pdf
    I like this bit
    HMRC will not carry out targeted campaigns
    Now I'm a cynic but a scattergun untargeted approach is perfectly allowed within that statement and such an approach will be more than enough to get them more money than they've ever been asked to collect.
    merely at clientco for the entertainment

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by eek View Post
    Stealing it from here and Dave Chaplin here but I want to make things 100% clear in a new thread


    This is from HMRC's internal manual and directly contridicts what HMRC have been saying in public (until you remove the word automatic from that statement)



    ESM0117 - Employment Status Manual - HMRC internal manual - GOV.UK

    And it means that if you were outside and are going inside HMRC will have to look at your situation and decide what to do and that will be to ask you for a large cheque.
    Is this where you were self declared outside but stayed on with the client inside post April?

    Or

    Is this where you have been working outside for a number of years (on a various clients at separate times) but then gave up contracting (as it's a ball ache and clients aren't taking on many contractors outside post April) to join a new client who you have not previously worked for in an inside capacity, perm/umbrella et al?

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    Quote Originally Posted by CompoundOverload View Post
    Is this where you were self declared outside but stayed on with the client inside post April?

    Or

    Is this where you have been working outside for a number of years (on a various clients at separate times) but then gave up contracting (as it's a ball ache and clients aren't taking on many contractors outside post April) to join a new client who you have not previously worked for in an inside capacity, perm/umbrella et al?
    Self declared outside and remained past April working as if inside.

    If you leave HMRC haven't got much to go on, if you stay it's HMRC can start asking questions where the answers will at the very least be awkward to answer..
    merely at clientco for the entertainment

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by ladymuck View Post
    This was published back in November last year, the above does appear to contradict #7 on page 2

    https://assets.publishing.service.go...Factsheet_.pdf
    HMRC have taken the decision that they will only use information resulting from these changes to open a new enquiry into earlier years if there is reason to suspect fraud or criminal behaviour. Further reading can be found here: HMRC issue briefing: reform of off-payroll working rules - GOV.UK

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