IR35 - Finance Contractors Try to Play Hardball

[eek]

There was the FLC concept bandied about for a while, back in 2014/15 but it never took off

Freelancer Limited Company | IPSE

Complicated tax systems have benefits for both HMRC and companies as each try to use convoluted means to pay less / collect more. There is no will to make things simple and clear.

And I will happily destroy it - you can't expect HMRC to treat some people different to others -

our tax system is unfair but as with democracy - it's better than the other options..

[ladymuck]

And I will happily destroy it - you can't expect HMRC to treat some people different to others -

our tax system is unfair but as with democracy - it's better than the other options..

I think the FLC is a bad idea but I wonder if it may get resurrected in some form...

[eek]

I think the FLC is a bad idea but I wonder if it may get resurrected in some form...

By those who wish to be seen as special - no it's as dead as a door nail - the only time it could have been introduced was as IR35 was implemented and that horse has well and truly bolted

[mookiemoo]

I'm actually working at a big user of contractors and happen to sit in the same room as the team doing the IR35 assessments. I'm contractually and in practice genuinely outside and have had confirmation of this from my client and the agency. My client is a foreign consultancy (not Indian) who are doing the implementation. The place where I am on site have said even if they have to assess me, I'm clearly outside.

On that web site that is naming and shaming clients, this one gets a bad rating.

HOWEVER

95% of the contractors here ARE just temps. They were taken on by the client to get around a hiring freeze. They have managers, are part of teams and look, walk, and quack like a duck.

Even the PMO (who likes to call themselves a PM) who is moaning about being caught after April would probably look good with a pancake and Hoisin sauce. They are even talking about the client finding them another role after the project in employee like terms.

The naivety of some of the response to the IR35 questionnaire the contractors have returned is ridiculous. One said they weren't caught because they paid themselves dividends!

Funnily enough, if the contractor comes back with reasonable arguments as to why they are outside, the answers ARE being considered and some (not many) have been found outside.

The fact is, the vast majority should have been inside all along.

It is the bending of the rules in this manner that has gotten us all into the current mess.

I used to, prior to the last few months, be a defender of the contractor however more and more i'm beginning to think we, as in the royal we, have brought this on ourselves. And I am probably equally as guilty. I've hired contractors in the past knowing that the role they were doing was more than likely caught but having them work through their PSC without really caring as it was their problem. I've done roles that in all honesty were caught that I've operated outside - complete with QDOS working practice and contract review saying its outside (its amazing how you can spin things by answering truthfully with different words).

what I have come to realis is that,for thing that matter, a 500 per day IR35 caught contract is the equivalent of an 85K salary. And there aren't many of them around outside of the city and in my area. Therefore, being caught, as long as you don't have expenses, is not the end of the world.

I don't think the contract work will dry up completely - the work still needs to be done - its just more might be inside than outside.

That has turned into a bit of a rant but being where I am has been something of an eye opener.

[BoredBloke]

I'm actually working at a big user of contractors and happen to sit in the same room as the team doing the IR35 assessments. I'm contractually and in practice genuinely outside and have had confirmation of this from my client and the agency. My client is a foreign consultancy (not Indian) who are doing the implementation. The place where I am on site have said even if they have to assess me, I'm clearly outside.

On that web site that is naming and shaming clients, this one gets a bad rating.

HOWEVER

95% of the contractors here ARE just temps. They were taken on by the client to get around a hiring freeze. They have managers, are part of teams and look, walk, and quack like a duck.

Even the PMO (who likes to call themselves a PM) who is moaning about being caught after April would probably look good with a pancake and Hoisin sauce. They are even talking about the client finding them another role after the project in employee like terms.

The naivety of some of the response to the IR35 questionnaire the contractors have returned is ridiculous. One said they weren't caught because they paid themselves dividends!

Funnily enough, if the contractor comes back with reasonable arguments as to why they are outside, the answers ARE being considered and some (not many) have been found outside.

The fact is, the vast majority should have been inside all along.

It is the bending of the rules in this manner that has gotten us all into the current mess.

I used to, prior to the last few months, be a defender of the contractor however more and more i'm beginning to think we, as in the royal we, have brought this on ourselves. And I am probably equally as guilty. I've hired contractors in the past knowing that the role they were doing was more than likely caught but having them work through their PSC without really caring as it was their problem. I've done roles that in all honesty were caught that I've operated outside - complete with QDOS working practice and contract review saying its outside (its amazing how you can spin things by answering truthfully with different words).

what I have come to realis is that,for thing that matter, a 500 per day IR35 caught contract is the equivalent of an 85K salary. And there aren't many of them around outside of the city and in my area. Therefore, being caught, as long as you don't have expenses, is not the end of the world.

I don't think the contract work will dry up completely - the work still needs to be done - its just more might be inside than outside.

That has turned into a bit of a rant but being where I am has been something of an eye opener.

So why are you so clearly outside when the majority are inside?

[mookiemoo]

Because i'm not actually a contractor for the end client but I'm doing a unique stand alone project which they have brought external resources in for. I am not body shopped in to do a bum on seat job.