Next steps on IR35 moot - it's a PSC ban that's the problem

[oliverson]

all good if you're single & have the freedom of roaming around working anywhere but spare a thought for the ones who have families

Nobody forced them to have families!

[ChimpMaster]

For the current projects, people staying put is fine. What happens when they need to do something which requires specialist skills that they don't have? They'll have to get some specialist in. Oh, dear, he's using a PSC.

It's the specialists that will break the bans. If there are only ten guys in the UK who can do something and they insist on using a PSC, the clients will give in. Once they do, then the ban is broken, and managers will say, 'You gave in to get that guy, why not this guy? Oh, sure, his skills aren't in quite the same demand, but now we know we've made it work.'

The bans will start to slip. That's just the way the world works.

I am one such specialist and I don't see my client budging just yet.

It's amazing how clients are willing to shoot themselves in the foot - such is the environment of fear instilled by HMRC. And the apathy of lemmings that are our clients.

[herman_g]

all good if you're single & have the freedom of roaming around working anywhere but spare a thought for the ones who have families

I have a daughter in Bristol (work) and wife up in Warsaw (she follows the Polish tradition of looking after ageing parents, which I accept).

I live in Greece and see both of them on a regular basis. As a Canadian that immigrated to UK / Europe 20 years ago, I still find Europe quite tiny and easily and cheaply crossed in any direction.

Working in a specialised field of IT, most of the contractors I continue to bump into at various client sites live the same way as myself. A simple choice between cashflow and bench (beach) time. Thank God I don't need to sit on the bench in Little England!

[BritishLad88]

I have a daughter in Bristol (work) and wife up in Warsaw (she follows the Polish tradition of looking after ageing parents, which I accept).

I live in Greece and see both of them on a regular basis. As a Canadian that immigrated to UK / Europe 20 years ago, I still find Europe quite tiny and easily and cheaply crossed in any direction.

Working in a specialised field of IT, most of the contractors I continue to bump into at various client sites live the same way as myself. A simple choice between cashflow and bench (beach) time. Thank God I don't need to sit on the bench in Little England!

money is not everything.
perhaps you can do it in having your family separated apart in different parts of the continent for the maximum gain of money possible

but for me, sorry I can't. As much as I love money & want to earn the maximum i possibly could to my abilities, If i had a choice between it and my family being together, I choose having my family together.

[herman_g]

money is not everything.

No problem then you can go permie.

I've never had to as I've been willing to go to the profitable contract work wherever that may be. Hell, I even did a gig in the middle east once. Turned out better than expected.

My daughter has an MBA and has no student loan. I probably don't need to explain how essential my money was for that endeavour.

[eek]

No problem then you can go permie.

I've never had to as I've been willing to go to the profitable contract work wherever that may be. Hell, I even did a gig in the middle east once. Turned out better than expected.

My daughter has an MBA and has no student loan. I probably don't need to explain how essential my money was for that endeavour.

I think all you've shown is that you are of an age when your children are old enough to have flown the nest.

It's one thing to fly around the world when you children are 15+ (as I have done over the past 3 years) - it's another thing entirely to do it when your children are younger..

[WordIsBond]

The company will just say "sorry, no PSC allowed" because there would be so called "specialist" out there willing to do it via cheaper means. It's a buyers market right now.

I doubt that anyone who does what I do will do it cheaper, or via payroll. I'm in a very narrow niche but there's hardly anyone doing it and none of the others have people working for them who can do parts of the project at a cheaper price. Because I'm willing to provide a job for others (and accept the hassles and responsibilities that come with it), I can undercut my competition consistently and still make more on my own time than they do. I know who they are and I know who they are working for and what they are doing.

And when I'm willing to work for a UK client again, they'll wriggle themselves into calling MyCo a consultancy (since I have employees) and use that as an excuse to work around their PSC ban. But it's a crack in the facade, even so.

[WordIsBond]

I am one such specialist and I don't see my client budging just yet.

It's amazing how clients are willing to shoot themselves in the foot - such is the environment of fear instilled by HMRC. And the apathy of lemmings that are our clients.

Legislation isn't out yet. Of course they aren't budging. They don't even know for certain what the rules will be.

If you are a specialist someone is going to need it sometime badly enough to make an exception for you. Might not be for a year or two, and you may not be able to ride it out that long. I'm fortunate that I can keep busy with foreign clients, I've got the contacts to make that happen. I feel for the guys who don't have that.

[herman_g]

I think all you've shown is that you are of an age when your children are old enough to have flown the nest.

It's one thing to fly around the world when you children are 15+ (as I have done over the past 3 years) - it's another thing entirely to do it when your children are younger..

Maybe I've just been lucky having a Polish wife who's traditional family have been fully supportive of our mobility since our daughter was eight. At that time my wife travelled between Warsaw and France in order to supply her clothing boutiques (as I worked long-term German contracts).

We have always enjoyed being an international family and reaped the rewards. It didn't mean not having quality time with my daughter on weekends and holidays.

In the early years, steady work in Canada and later in London was never really an issue. If it was, the inlaws would have been just as supportive.

[BR14]

and what's all the billy big bolloks willy waving to do with the original topic?