• Visitors can check out the Forum FAQ by clicking this link. You have to register before you can post: click the REGISTER link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. View our Forum Privacy Policy.
  • Want to receive the latest contracting news and advice straight to your inbox? Sign up to the ContractorUK newsletter here. Every sign up will also be entered into a draw to WIN £100 Amazon vouchers!

Outside IR35. Who suffers if it's the wrong call?

Collapse
X
  •  
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Outside IR35. Who suffers if it's the wrong call?

    Hi, I tried searching and browsing forum search and via google but to no avail. Sorry.

    My ClientCo is desperate to keep me (but I prefer outside IR35). They've worked hard to make sure the assessments are saying outside IR35, there's a planned break, other changes etc. One person however is saying it's above their risk appetite and wants to insist in inside.

    A part of continued discussion, I wanted to have a risk conversation but I'm not clear.

    My question is: Who's risk is it? If outside later becomes determined by HMRC as inside, who feels the pain? The clientco, the agent, my company, me as an individual? All of the above?

    #2
    Originally posted by CalmEddie View Post
    Hi, I tried searching and browsing forum search and via google but to no avail. Sorry.

    My ClientCo is desperate to keep me (but I prefer outside IR35). They've worked hard to make sure the assessments are saying outside IR35, there's a planned break, other changes etc. One person however is saying it's above their risk appetite and wants to insist in inside.

    A part of continued discussion, I wanted to have a risk conversation but I'm not clear.

    My question is: Who's risk is it? If outside later becomes determined by HMRC as inside, who feels the pain? The clientco, the agent, my company, me as an individual? All of the above?
    The client.
    ---

    Former member of IPSE.


    ---
    Many a mickle makes a muckle.

    ---

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by wattaj View Post
      The client.
      +1 but the client will only be paying from April 2020 onwards (however, HMRC are continually threatening to include all "outside" contractors when pushing for tax).

      I think you just need to explain it clearly that while they bear the risk from April onwards, you are already carrying a lot of risk for the entire time you have been there until April and without an outside determination cannot continue unless it's outside.
      merely at clientco for the entertainment

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by eek View Post
        I think you just need to explain it clearly that while they bear the risk from April onwards, you are already carrying a lot of risk for the entire time you have been there until April and without an outside determination cannot continue unless it's outside.
        This, in spades. If they start talking about risk counter with how much risk they are asking you to take if they insist on inside, and you can't do that.

        Also, risk can be mitigated. I believe QDOS is now selling insurance for clients.

        Comment


          #5
          Thanks guys, that's helpful to know.

          I've only been here since Oct and expiry is end Mar anyway, so the issue is one of new contract for the future. They've really worked hard to make sure it's possible, including proposing putting named substitute through security and giving them a badge.

          It's just the one person unhappy to underwrite it and insisting the CEO signs it off. Very, very big clientco, so achieving that will take 3 months. I just need this objector to grow a pair.

          Originally posted by WordIsBond View Post
          I believe QDOS is now selling insurance for clients.
          That is very useful to know.

          Comment


            #6
            If they are insistent on keeping you personally then I assume they are struggling with allowing a substitute. Do they need to keep you because you are part and parcel or they want you to just get on with whatever they give you to do.

            If any of those are even close I can see why they might be worried about the risk as an outside determination is likely to be fudged to keep you rather the reflect the role.

            How long have you been there?
            'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by northernladuk View Post
              Do they need to keep you because you are part and parcel or they want you to just get on with whatever they give you to do.
              They want me to improve their management. Happy for me to find things that need fixing, write the spec, analyse, build and deploy methods and processes. Provide training, audit.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by CalmEddie View Post
                They want me to improve their management. Happy for me to find things that need fixing, write the spec, analyse, build and deploy methods and processes. Provide training, audit.
                Start with the guy that won't accept the risk. You've got 6 weeks to get rid of him.
                'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

                Comment


                  #9
                  So they need you to deal with, e.g. the risk of hiring contractors. If the contract is clearly one of services, then there is no issue. They just need to make sure their contracts are iron-clad. It's worked that way for contractors since 2000...
                  Down with racism. Long live miscegenation!

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by northernladuk View Post
                    Start with the guy that won't accept the risk. You've got 6 weeks to get rid of him.

                    Comment

                    Working...
                    X