Outside IR35 - day rate, still a concept?

[jlcook99]

Hi All

I've seen the odd job role still being advertised as "outside IR35" with an associated day rate. Could they possibly provide you with a contract simply based around a rate per day avoiding all the complexities around fixed outcomes, deliverables, etc? Appreciate they'd be owning the risk by doing so but wouldn't this in most eyes be an "inside IR35" contract if it only stipulated a daily rate?

Thanks in advance

[adubya]

Hi All

I've seen the odd job role still being advertised as "outside IR35" with an associated day rate. Could they possibly provide you with a contract simply based around a rate per day avoiding all the complexities around fixed outcomes, deliverables, etc? Appreciate they'd be owning the risk by doing so but wouldn't this in most eyes be an "inside IR35" contract if it only stipulated a daily rate?

Thanks in advance

Companies exempt from the new legislation can.

[eek]

Hi All

I've seen the odd job role still being advertised as "outside IR35" with an associated day rate. Could they possibly provide you with a contract simply based around a rate per day avoiding all the complexities around fixed outcomes, deliverables, etc? Appreciate they'd be owning the risk by doing so but wouldn't this in most eyes be an "inside IR35" contract if it only stipulated a daily rate?

Thanks in advance

It's an advert - what the advert says and what the actual contract and statement of work etc say may be entirely separate things.

And outside IR35 contracts exist. Some of the specialist agencies (especially in my booming specialism) are offering them as otherwise the Boutique consultancies will eat their lunch

[craigy1874]

Companies exempt from the new legislation can.

No, they cannot.

[northernladuk]

How do you know they are avoiding the complexities of a deliverable based approach just from an advert? I've just started outside and the ad looked exactly the same as normal, interview and quick offer all as usual. Didn't see anything about deliverables until the contract arrived.

Quite happy with all thst. Bit extra admin but more than happy to play the game.

[WordIsBond]

I always have concurrent contracts running so am always on an hourly rate. Hourly or daily, what's it matter? I also use a retainer system.

There can be many factors in a contract that put you clearly outside, and the terms of compensation don't really factor that highly into the question, unless you are doing a fixed price for a job. That strongly militates for an outside determination but hourly or daily certainly doesn't push a contract inside. A retainer indicates a level of MoO, but even that doesn't necessarily push you inside. You can still have a right of substitution (used or not), you can still be outside SDC, you can still have significant financial risk, etc, etc.

[herman_g]

I was curious how my most recent UK contract (4 years ago now) would pan out using HMRC's tool.

I answered it as honestly as I could (btw. the client is not longer dealing with PSC's).

The question about day rate I answered yes.

The question about possible extensions I answered yes.

The question about specialist skills, I answered yes (I am in a niche market).

The question about substitution also yes (this is what my contract, in theory, stated).

When I finished the question, the tool went away and did some thinking. When the answer came back, it said contract "OUTSIDE IR35".

Other answers were I did not have to do the work at specific times and could do the work where I wanted - both true I could come and go as I want and working remotely just required telling the boss on the way out the day before.

There was one other about when talking to the client's customers would I say I was independent or not - of course I would not say I represented the company. Even my email address had the word external on it.

[herman_g]

BTW the test I took was here:

Check employment status for tax - GOV.UK

note at the top of the page states:

Published 2 March 2017
Last updated 28 January 2020