HMRC hasn't beaten the contractor, apathy has..... HMRC hasn't beaten the contractor, apathy has.....
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  1. #1

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    Default HMRC hasn't beaten the contractor, apathy has.....

    I've given in, nothing will make the changes go away.

    HMRC hasn't as much won, (only time will tell if they changes increase the receipts to the treasury they hope they will), but given the number of people who are wrongly declared inside the treasury will call it a win no matter what the impact.

    The thing I have found most surprising is the vast majority of contractors who have just rolled over, there has been some like those who attended the protests outside the Houses of Parliament but these are few and far between.

    I've spoken to countless contractors who talk a good game but don't follow up with action, I was approached by a couple of journalists and asked to speak on the impact that HMRC projects are slowly turning from green to amber to red due to Capgemini blanket assessing people as inside.

    Turns out Cap were right as most of the other contractors while publicly talking about fighting the decisions simply accepted the decision and will carry onside until they find something else, which in this market isn't going to happen anytime soon.

    Maybe we need to put something on facebook, at least then we'd get "thoughts and prayers" to solve the problem!
    “Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.”

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    I’m afraid that I think even vigorous lobbying would have gotten exactly the same response.

    The government pretend that they listen and then do what they want anyway.
    "I can put any old tat in my sig, put quotes around it and attribute to someone of whom I've heard, to make it sound true."
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    Quote Originally Posted by cojak View Post
    I’m afraid that I think even vigorous lobbying would have gotten exactly the same response.

    The government pretend that they listen and then do what they want anyway.
    And? - all three of us on here knew what the end game would be back in July 2015....

    Nothing I've seen surprises me it's going to be the lack of expenses that surprises people but most contractors won't notice that until mid May when their first umbrella pay slip arrives..
    merely at clientco for the entertainment

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    Quote Originally Posted by eek View Post
    And? - all three of us on here knew what the end game would be back in July 2015....

    Nothing I've seen surprises me it's going to be the lack of expenses that surprises people but most contractors won't notice that until mid May when their first umbrella pay slip arrives..
    Exactly this ^^
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    Some things in Moderation

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    Quote Originally Posted by eek View Post
    And? - all three of us on here knew what the end game would be back in July 2015....
    True, it did slip by a year or two but the end result is as expected.

    At least one or two of us made the most of contracting during that slippage, but I don’t regret my planning or ultimate decision.
    "I can put any old tat in my sig, put quotes around it and attribute to someone of whom I've heard, to make it sound true."
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    Even my 'Should I stay or should I go' thread has most newbies asking how can they can stay.
    "I can put any old tat in my sig, put quotes around it and attribute to someone of whom I've heard, to make it sound true."
    - Voltaire/Benjamin Franklin/Anne Frank...

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    Quote Originally Posted by cojak View Post
    Even my 'Should I stay or should I go' thread has most newbies asking how can they can stay.
    They are probably too scared to leave and even if they aren't scared the market is dire ..
    merely at clientco for the entertainment

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    Quote Originally Posted by cojak View Post
    Even my 'Should I stay or should I go' thread has most newbies asking how can they can stay.
    Something is better than nothing, the number of contractors with a warchest who can be choosy is dwarfed by the people who are pay-check to pay-check even then that pay-check is bigger than most
    “Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.”

    ― Marcus Aurelius

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    Quote Originally Posted by eek View Post
    And? - all three of us on here knew what the end game would be back in July 2015....

    Nothing I've seen surprises me it's going to be the lack of expenses that surprises people but most contractors won't notice that until mid May when their first umbrella pay slip arrives..
    And I knew it back in 2008. Still, what comes around goes around.
    Fight HMRC now! Help sue HMRC individual officers/government ministers for malfeasance in office. Visit https://www.loanchargejustice.com/ and scroll to the bottom of the page to donate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SimonMac View Post
    I've given in, nothing will make the changes go away.

    HMRC hasn't as much won, (only time will tell if they changes increase the receipts to the treasury they hope they will), but given the number of people who are wrongly declared inside the treasury will call it a win no matter what the impact.

    The thing I have found most surprising is the vast majority of contractors who have just rolled over, there has been some like those who attended the protests outside the Houses of Parliament but these are few and far between.

    I've spoken to countless contractors who talk a good game but don't follow up with action, I was approached by a couple of journalists and asked to speak on the impact that HMRC projects are slowly turning from green to amber to red due to Capgemini blanket assessing people as inside.

    Turns out Cap were right as most of the other contractors while publicly talking about fighting the decisions simply accepted the decision and will carry onside until they find something else, which in this market isn't going to happen anytime soon.

    Maybe we need to put something on facebook, at least then we'd get "thoughts and prayers" to solve the problem!
    Sadly, I think you start from a false premise:And that is that many contractors are not of the contractor mindset. They are really permies working on a contract basis.

    In my 20+ year contracting career before I retired, I can honestly say the majority of 'contractors' I worked with were not.

    I knew 'contractors' who stayed at the same client doing the same work for 7, 10 and 12 years. I knew 'contractors' who didnt know you could and should be having your contract professionally reviewed. I knew 'contractors' who had allocated parking spaces at client site just like the permies had. I knew contractors who thought because they had another income stream they were exempt from IR35. I knew 'contractors' who thought nothing of doing completely unconnected work at the client because they had 'nothing else to do.'

    A couple of clients I was at, inside I felt a complete twat and somewhat isolated because I politely turned down requests to attend clear and obvious permie company literature and meetings while my fellow contractors trooped in and obliged.

    I always tried to operate first as a business and second on an outside IR35 basis but many 'contractor' just pay lip service to this. When the majority of your colleagues just like the extra income, use a limited to just put through neferious expenses and asked 'how high?' when the client shouted 'jump!' fighting a tightened up IR35 (as I predicted Governments would) was always going to be an uphill task.
    I couldn't give two fornicators! Yes, really!

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