Here we go then. SDS received. Inside determination.

[LondonManc]

Only if (and don't take this the wrong way DaveB as it's not aimed at you) you wait long enough to for an SDS determination to be issued.

The ideal approach was to leave early enough that no SDS determination was done for your contract / role...

I respectfully disagree. I think DaveB has played it well. Exercised due care when it was his place to determine it and appealed against the lack of due care shown by the client when it came to their turn to determine the status.

Legging it just smacks of someone trying to run and hide rather than stand and fight.

[eek]

I respectfully disagree. I think DaveB has played it well. Exercised due care when it was his place to determine it and appealed against the lack of due care shown by the client when it came to their turn to determine the status.

Legging it just smacks of someone trying to run and hide rather than stand and fight.

Personally, I think it would have been safer not to have any paperwork which shows the client thinks I'm inside (even if it's due to their incorrect interpretation of the questions). But what's done is done and we can agree to disagree.

[jamesbrown]

The problem for DaveB is that the client is now on record as disputing the earlier assessment that DaveB made himself, which is a bad place to be under investigation. But, of course, an investigation may never happen and, even if it does, facts do still matter. But it cannot be described as anything other than a serious negative when the client is saying you were inside all along (formal record or no formal record).

[BlueSharp]

Time to say goodbye I'm afraid unless your confident you can prove otherwise without the clients support.

[SciaticaSucks]

The problem for DaveB is that the client is now on record as disputing the earlier assessment that DaveB made himself, which is a bad place to be under investigation. But, of course, an investigation may never happen and, even if it does, facts do still matter. But it cannot be described as anything other than a serious negative when the client is saying you were inside all along (formal record or no formal record).

How does this work with regards to the fact that it is not the clients responsibility to determine status until after 5 April? If the contractor chose to leave before 5 April could the client still pass details of their determination to HMRC or is that a matter of confidentiality and GDPR? I would have no problem with them providing HMRC with details of the working practice as they see them bit I don't think they should pass on SDS for a contractor that has left prior to 5 April. Any thoughts?

[DaveB]

The problem for DaveB is that the client is now on record as disputing the earlier assessment that DaveB made himself, which is a bad place to be under investigation. But, of course, an investigation may never happen and, even if it does, facts do still matter. But it cannot be described as anything other than a serious negative when the client is saying you were inside all along (formal record or no formal record).

For clarification, I didn't make that assessment, QDOS did based on the same evidence available to the Client staff making the determination and supported by Client management at the coal face. The staff making the determination have no experience with the legislation and have not sought any professional advice nor consulted the managers directly impacted by it. They even got the name of the end client wrong in the determination. I'm engaged via a different arm of the business to the one they work for, it's a completely separate body.

It's a point of principle now and an arse covering exercise for the future should HMRC ever decide to come calling. QDOS determination plus insurance plus a robust challenge to the SDS before I go.

[jamesbrown]

For clarification, I didn't make that assessment, QDOS did based on the same evidence available to the Client staff making the determination and supported by Client management at the coal face. The staff making the determination have no experience with the legislation and have not sought any professional advice nor consulted the managers directly impacted by it. They even got the name of the end client wrong in the determination. I'm engaged via a different arm of the business to the one they work for, it's a completely separate body.

It's a point of principle now and an arse covering exercise for the future should HMRC ever decide to come calling. QDOS determination plus insurance plus a robust challenge to the SDS before I go.

Fair enough, but your made the choice to operate outside on the basis of that evidence. At this point, you're doing all you can. As I said, facts matter and, hopefully, you will avoid an investigation.

[SciaticaSucks]

Personally, I think it would have been safer not to have any paperwork which shows the client thinks I'm inside (even if it's due to their incorrect interpretation of the questions). But what's done is done and we can agree to disagree.

We had a few people here who chose not to receive a determination and have subsequently left. However, the client has told us that the determination was on the job role and not specific to each individual. Should HMRC be successful in claiming that someone moving from outside to inside should have been inside all along I would expect them to ask the client for a list of all contractors in that role going back at least 5 years. In these circumstances, whether you had a SDS or not you will still be targeted.

[Snooky]

Legging it just smacks of someone trying to run and hide rather than stand and fight.

If you think someone/something is coming who could very well beat you to a pulp, running and hiding makes a lot more sense than standing and fighting.

As the great philosopher Kenny Rogers once sang "You've got to know when to walk away and know when to run"

[ladymuck]

If you think someone/something is coming who could very well beat you to a pulp, running and hiding makes a lot more sense than standing and fighting.

As the great philosopher Kenny Rogers once sang "You've got to know when to walk away and know when to run"

Ah The Gambler...