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Nothing will change until IR35 changes start to hurt clients

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    #21
    Originally posted by northernladuk View Post
    You first paragraph kinda makes the argument that HMRC have got it right. Years at a client, no idea of being a contractor and just carry on. If they've unearthed all this they are hardly going to admit they dropped a bollock and change anything.
    And the 3rd paragraph not.

    Inside is an ok compromise, but contractors have been forced over the years to work through PSC by companies who wanted highly skilled temporary resources (i.e. not employees), not of their own choosing. Would have been easier if Inside had been brought in many years ago.
    Last edited by mockedguy; 17 March 2020, 12:25.

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      #22
      Originally posted by mockedguy View Post
      And the 3rd paragraph not.
      First paragraph are the facts of the matter. The 3rd is just musings.
      'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

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        #23
        Originally posted by mockedguy View Post
        Tell that to nearly every contract up to now where it is made a requirement by the client, not the contractor, you must have your own limited company to work through.
        Because businesses will not engage with sole traders. We are suppliers so not unreasonable to have a LTD and the protections it offers the clients.
        'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

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          #24
          Originally posted by northernladuk View Post
          First paragraph are the facts of the matter. The 3rd is just musings.
          3rd is just as factual as the 1st. A company building a new system requiring 20 people for 18 months does not want to have to hire them all as perms, train them for 6mths first, and then be stuck with them afterwards. They pay a premium for that flexibility.
          Last edited by mockedguy; 17 March 2020, 12:37.

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            #25
            Originally posted by mockedguy View Post
            3rd is just as factual as the 1st. A company building a new system requiring 20 people for 18 months does not want to have to hire them all as perms, train them for 6mths first, and then be stuck with them afterwards. They pay a premium for that flexibility.
            But then the move them on to another project or give them more work and the whole argument falls apart.

            And most clients have permies thar have the same skills as the guys being brought it. They are just using contractors as a resourcing model instead of managing perms. Clients with 50%+ contractors in teams is clear indication of this.

            You are thinking of some examples that may indicate outside status and I'm on one of them but you are missing the bigger picture.
            'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

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              #26
              Originally posted by northernladuk View Post
              Because businesses will not engage with sole traders. We are suppliers so not unreasonable to have a LTD and the protections it offers the clients.
              Businesses can engage with sole traders - agencies can't...
              merely at clientco for the entertainment

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                #27
                Originally posted by cojak View Post
                Everything that everyone above says.

                On CUK there are Professional Forums where people are informed about things such as Professional Insurance, accounts and accounting, IR35, taxes, we are anti-tax avoidance schemes, we are pro-IBOYOA (look it up, that’s what we do), 24-month rule, etc.

                I even wrote up a thread to on how to decide whether people to stay or go after April in September.

                All contractors need to do is be curious and google this stuff up and inform themselves, they don’t even need to use CUK.

                But permitractors don’t. They are not curious, they don’t care other than making sure the money goes into their account at the end of the month whereupon they spend it. They are not interested in the nuance of working for the same clients for multiple years. Most will have enough to pay the tax their accountant tells them to pay but some won’t, relying on luck to see them through.

                Sometimes it feels that I am just yelling into a bucket, hearing my own voice yelling back at me.

                We will give advice but we are increasingly unsympathetic with these contractors if they come here weeping “it’s not fair!”.

                Edit: oh, and don’t forget warchests. We LOVE warchest, the bigger the better. Three months minimum, 6 months best practice.
                Forgot those warchests...

                The contractors we feel sorry for are those who were curious, who did read up, who did consider the risks of IR35. Those who left and are unable to find another contracts, contractors who went permie and are now facing redundancy, and those who are seeing their precious warchests shrivel in the face of IR35 and COVID-19.
                "I can put any old tat in my sig, put quotes around it and attribute to someone of whom I've heard, to make it sound true."
                - Voltaire/Benjamin Franklin/Anne Frank...

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                  #28
                  Originally posted by eek View Post
                  Businesses can engage with sole traders - agencies can't...
                  Very good point. Can but often don't want to.
                  'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

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                    #29
                    Originally posted by northernladuk View Post
                    Very good point. Can but often don't want to.
                    But that's an entirely different matter - as we can see with IR35 what the law says and company policy may be entirely different (especially when companies don't, usually for good reasons, trust their staff).
                    merely at clientco for the entertainment

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                      #30
                      Originally posted by eek View Post
                      But that's an entirely different matter - as we can see with IR35 what the law says and company policy may be entirely different (especially when companies don't, usually for good reasons, trust their staff).
                      Indeed but we are going off topic from the context of the reply.
                      'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

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