Originally posted by mockedguy
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Nothing will change until IR35 changes start to hurt clients
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Originally posted by gables View PostWorking Inside has been available since April 2000. In fact earlier, like forever; mid 90s I was working with a PM who paid himself a PAYE salary based on his full LTD income, no dividends, no income splitting - he slept well at night.'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!Comment
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One of the many ironies in this situation is that for years and years contractors were told that routing money via a PSC was a "guarantee" of being outside IR35.
This is false.
Now we see end clients banning, not contractors, but the use of PSC's. The reasons they are being told by their agency contacts is that a "PSC looks prima facie as though an inside IR35 gig is being manipulated to be outside".
This is also false.
The hypocrisy of the agencies is stunning. Use a PSC to be outside Ir35 and then drop the PSC becasue it means you are inside IR35 (and we may not get our commission).Best Forum Adviser & Forum Personality of the Year 2018.
(No, me neither).Comment
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Originally posted by northernladuk View PostAnd most clients have permies thar have the same skills as the guys being brought it.
Client after client you see permies who are clueless compared to the contractors who carry the main workload. I handed a new system over to a BAU 'developer' not long ago and a year later he had dodged fixing any bugs or making any changes because he didn't know how to. I know many contract developers who have said if all the contract developers went permanent it will be very bad news for many existing permies. who will no longer have to be tolerated.Last edited by mockedguy; 17 March 2020, 13:34.Comment
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Originally posted by mockedguy View PostI don't know what your skill set is (I suspect there are a variety here clouding he discussion) but as a developer that is not true.
Client after client you see permies who are clueless compared to the contractors who carry the main workload. I handed a new system over to a BAU 'developer' not long ago and a year later he had dodged fixing any bugs or making any changes because he didn't know how to. I know many developers who have said if all the contract developers went permanent it will be very bad news for many existing permies. who will no longer have to be tolerated.merely at clientco for the entertainmentComment
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Originally posted by northernladuk View PostOn his straw mattress?Comment
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Originally posted by gables View PostAs I recall he lived in a nice mews in Chelsea, his XJS was nice if like that sort of car."I can put any old tat in my sig, put quotes around it and attribute to someone of whom I've heard, to make it sound true."
- Voltaire/Benjamin Franklin/Anne Frank...Comment
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The way some people talk you would think every contract ever entered into was at gunpoint. We have made a living out if contracting because there was a need and we fulfilled the need. They chose not to get in a Consultancy or, heaven forbid, employ some people.
Admittedly in the City (soon to be followed by everywhere else in all likelihood) demand has dropped due to external factors so there would probably be something of a contractor cull going on even if IR35 changes hadn't happened but there is still work to be done so they have the following options:
Consultancy (onshore or offshore or mixture of both) - No doubt varies depending on size but I imagine a consultancy contract is a damm site more watertight than a contractor one through an agency. Having worked with a few of them they don't really do flexible so if you change your mind it will cost you money to change it. Similarly you don't get the flexibility of telling the resource they aren't wanted if it gets canned.
Permanent employees - Not happening. Indeed one can almost hear the cogs ticking in recruitment as they see they can recruit temporary resource with no employment rights so why not recruit everyone that way? Which leads us too -
Temporary resource (Contractors and FTC) - If everything goes inside I am sure a lot of previously outside contractors will stay (despite the advice on here) or sign an inside contract next time. Entirely legitimate and legal but does reduce their financial spending and is going to push a lot of very good contractors into permanent jobs as they might as well have the benefits to go with the tax.
What hasn't been mentioned is expenses. This isn't much of a factor for anyone living and working in London but in less populate areas where they haven't got a local pull of talent, spending a £1,000 a month on expenses after tax is going to make lower end contracts non-viable so they are going to have to consider paying expenses.
To answer the original point of the thread the market will sort it out but for the foreseeable future it isn't top of our list of things to worry about.Comment
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Originally posted by cojak View PostCome, come now. Lack of sympathy does not equate to petty spitefulness.Comment
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Originally posted by mockedguy View PostHave you ever seen the quality of offshore work? The only people who think it is a good idea are managers without any technical background who resent paying for quality software.Comment
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