80% Salary Grant, Furlough and IR35 Impact 80% Salary Grant, Furlough and IR35 Impact
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  1. #1

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    Default 80% Salary Grant, Furlough and IR35 Impact

    There was an employment lawyer on the BBC News talking about the governments plan to provide workers impacted by Covid-19 with up to 80% of their pay. When asked how this would work, he said it would be managed via HMRC and likely that staff would be "furloughed" by their employers (he then went on to describe what that was).

    We often read here a "I'm not an employee as employees can't be furloughed" argument to validate an outside IR35 (self) determination. I wouldn't put it past HMRC to now use this as a counter-argument in future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paralytic View Post
    There was an employment lawyer on the BBC News talking about the governments plan to provide workers impacted by Covid-19 with up to 80% of their pay. When asked how this would work, he said it would be managed via HMRC and likely that staff would be "furloughed" by their employers (he then went on to describe what that was).

    We often read here a "I'm not an employee as employees can't be furloughed" argument to validate an outside IR35 (self) determination. I wouldn't put it past HMRC to now use this as a counter-argument in future.
    No the argument used is that the contractors were not required that week while permanent staff continued working - which emphasised the difference between being a contractor and a member of staff...

    It's the actuality that is important for the argument not the theory
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    Quote Originally Posted by eek View Post
    No the argument used is that the contractors were not required that week while permanent staff continued working - which emphasised the difference between being a contractor and a member of staff...

    It's the actuality that is important for the argument not the theory
    Agreed.

    In companies now furloughing staff, I suspect the contractors will be binned as I doubt the companies will keep paying them. So, still different treatment for contractors vs employees.

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    Look at the dictionary definition for furlough. It mentions about employees.
    Contractors aren't furloghed. I wish we would stop using the term.
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    Quote Originally Posted by northernladuk View Post
    Look at the dictionary definition for furlough. It mentions about employees.
    Contractors aren't furloghed. I wish we would stop using the term.
    From an old email


    Good morning

    Further to the email received advising you that you are required to take two weeks unpaid leave between now and Nov. 6, 2015, we have been instructed to confirm the following days to you:

    Furlough week 1 - 26/10/2015 - 30/10/2015
    Furlough week 2 - 02/11/2015 - 06/11/2015

    You are required to enter these non-working days as zero hours into Fieldglass when submitting your timesheets.

    Please do not hesitate to contact us should you have any questions.

    Pontoon Contract Labour Team for Bank of America Merrill Lynch


    Sent from my iPhone using Contractor UK Forum

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    Unpaid leave?? What are you? An employee?

    I'd have sent that back and have them rewording it saying your services are not required over those times.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GhostofTarbera View Post
    From an old email


    Good morning

    Further to the email received advising you that you are required to take two weeks unpaid leave between now and Nov. 6, 2015, we have been instructed to confirm the following days to you:

    Furlough week 1 - 26/10/2015 - 30/10/2015
    Furlough week 2 - 02/11/2015 - 06/11/2015

    You are required to enter these non-working days as zero hours into Fieldglass when submitting your timesheets.

    Please do not hesitate to contact us should you have any questions.

    Pontoon Contract Labour Team for Bank of America Merrill Lynch


    Sent from my iPhone using Contractor UK Forum
    Ah! Fieldglass, that brinks back memories!
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    Quote Originally Posted by northernladuk View Post
    Look at the dictionary definition for furlough. It mentions about employees.
    Contractors aren't furloghed. I wish we would stop using the term.
    You need to speak to clients about that I’m afraid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eek View Post
    No the argument used is that the contractors were not required that week while permanent staff continued working - which emphasised the difference between being a contractor and a member of staff...

    It's the actuality that is important for the argument not the theory
    Quote Originally Posted by ladymuck View Post
    Agreed.

    In companies now furloughing staff, I suspect the contractors will be binned as I doubt the companies will keep paying them. So, still different treatment for contractors vs employees.
    I agree with both, but will HMRC? We all know they pick their own version of reality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paralytic View Post
    You need to speak to clients about that I’m afraid.
    Not really. We should be able to differentiate from their bad use of terminology.
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