World post IR35? World post IR35?
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  1. #1

    Fingers like lightning


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    Default World post IR35?

    What do you reckon is going to happen when companies learn they no longer need to hire perm staff and they can take people on "inside IR35" without worry of any penalties or employment law?

    The scenario where companies tired of unions, paying for ever absent employees and other employment pet peeves start to offer inside contracts on a take it or leave it basis en masse is entirely plausible and flagged in the Lords' report.

    How government is going to plug that loophole?

    It looks like we are heading towards even more regulation and perhaps given that the slogan "same work same tax" was a success, there is a chance a new one will emerge:
    "same work same pay".

    Labour as a revenge and likely win after Boris's failures may enact regulation of salaries and maybe create commissions that will decide workers pay instead of leaving this decision to free market.

    Maybe union membership will have to be mandatory?

  2. #2

    Contractor Among Contractors

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    Well, it's like employing people on zero hours contracts - just because they can, doesn't mean that they do.

    A trend would need to establish which would take a while.

  3. #3

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    They've been doing it for years outside. Been the standard way to resource for quite awhile.
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  4. #4

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    I have seen quite a few permietractors buckle and go inside in the great shake up of Jan/Feb 2020.

    Companies have seen they can trample all over most folk so I expect at least 90% of contract roles to be inside by April 2021.

    I've seen so much comment from various sources which shows HMT and HMRC propaganda is breaking through.

  5. #5

    More time posting than coding


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    Quote Originally Posted by Peoplesoft bloke View Post
    I have seen quite a few permietractors buckle and go inside in the great shake up of Jan/Feb 2020.

    Companies have seen they can trample all over most folk so I expect at least 90% of contract roles to be inside by April 2021.

    I've seen so much comment from various sources which shows HMT and HMRC propaganda is breaking through.
    Yep, that's what I saw going through it as well. Client companies were incredibly united in their policy that everyone is moving inside IR35 and rates will stay the same or even be lower. Once it became a thing, every company jumped on the bandwagon.

  6. #6

    Fingers like lightning


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    The appeal process that HMRC is peddling is such a nonsense. Company creates a new role without the right of substitution with generic responsibilities, so that it ticks all the boxes of being inside so there is nothing to appeal. It's much more convenient this way as company doesn't need to spend time on building exact requirements of what needs to be done and they don't need to have any process of evaluating milestones.
    They get truly flexible workforce without headaches or liability.
    Even if company does create environment for taking outside IR35 contractors, the HMRC may still claim they do it to avoid tax because why they didn't take one "inside" instead?

  7. #7

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    I think agencies will start to disappear as more companies use the HR department instead of agencies. Many large companies are already doing this as it is cheaper than an agency. They only use an agency if they are very desperate.
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  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by elsergiovolador View Post
    What do you reckon is going to happen when companies learn they no longer need to hire perm staff and they can take people on "inside IR35" without worry of any penalties or employment law?

    The scenario where companies tired of unions, paying for ever absent employees and other employment pet peeves start to offer inside contracts on a take it or leave it basis en masse is entirely plausible and flagged in the Lords' report.

    How government is going to plug that loophole?

    It looks like we are heading towards even more regulation and perhaps given that the slogan "same work same tax" was a success, there is a chance a new one will emerge:
    "same work same pay".

    Labour as a revenge and likely win after Boris's failures may enact regulation of salaries and maybe create commissions that will decide workers pay instead of leaving this decision to free market.

    Maybe union membership will have to be mandatory?

    get better rates ... safe from HMRC and good take home

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by RobScott View Post
    get better rates ... safe from HMRC and good take home
    Take home has no use for business.

  10. #10

    Prof Cunning @ Oxford Uni

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    Quote Originally Posted by elsergiovolador View Post
    Take home has no use for business.

    If you're a one person "business" who only works for one client for long periods of time then you really should drop the word "business", in the same way that you need to drop the word "freelance" or "temporary"
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