Here we go again...IR35 determination

[Scruff]

Is this a large company working in the Defence industry, per chance?

[northernladuk]

The company sent an email saying all determinations were void. Contractors perform your own, which I did.

Now its sent another saying, previous evaluations stand.. wtf!!

Of course it would. This is as obvious as the nose on your face. It was void because the requirement for it was put back... Keyword 'put back' . It is not because the roles have changed or a new assessment was made.

The put back date is looming and they are picking up where they left off. No doubt this was going to happen. You won't be the only one this will happen to but unfortunately you are one of the first.

[ladymuck]

Its a big company.

1) I’ll speak to my accountant.

2) As far as I’m aware, no SDS was sent to HMRC.

My concern is what do I do with this new contract?

SDS doesn't go to HMRC

[sadkingbilly]

Its a big company.

1) I’ll speak to my accountant.

2) As far as I’m aware, no SDS was sent to HMRC.

My concern is what do I do with this new contract?

take it, and put money aside to cover you if HMRC come calling.
in the current climate, anything's better than nothing.

[GhostofTarbera]

Ok.. I’m with a client who blanketed all contractors inside IR35 last year.. before I joined.

Just as I joined IR35 got pushed back. All the contractors here are still outside.

My own determination for my particular role was Outside.

Company just sent an email out.. everyone blanketed inside again.

I have a new contract on the table till end of the year..

So.. what do I do..


A) tell Mr HMRC I got it wrong for the last 6 months and pay up.
B)Switch to Brolly and hope they don’t come calling. Stick around.
C)As per B, but close ltd down in Jan
D)Stay outside till Jan and swap
E)Stay outside to Jan, leave.. try get another contract
F)Get the hell out now
G)Get the hell out now and MVL
H)Stay, swap to brolly next March if they keep me on(probably will)

..thoughts?

You have probably really been inside all along


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[simes]

Ok.. I’m with a client who blanketed all contractors inside IR35 last year.. before I joined.

Just as I joined IR35 got pushed back. All the contractors here are still outside.

My own determination for my particular role was Outside.

Company just sent an email out.. everyone blanketed inside again.

I have a new contract on the table till end of the year..

So.. what do I do..

..thoughts?

Can you confirm the following?

1. Is the client Private Sector? Am guessing yes.
2. Ref the email, are they blanket assessing everyone as being inside, OR, are they just saying they refuse to use contractors? If the former, one should be able to report them to the (probably ambivalent) HMRC.
3. Before going down that route, within said email, is there any provision to make them aware that they have to actually assess, and that they should, by April, confer following the completion of an SDS?
4. Have you got a name from whom the email came? Sound like they need to be educated. Easier said than done in a large blue chip.

Failing any bright ideas, keep renewing as Outside to April and if they want to chuck you Inside before then, remind them it is neither their right nor obligation to do so.

And before I get shot down in flames, I am completely aware that in large part, you might just end up in shouting at the moon. But, until one tries to educate, there won't be any education.

[BABABlackSheep]

Of course it would. This is as obvious as the nose on your face. It was void because the requirement for it was put back... Keyword 'put back' . It is not because the roles have changed or a new assessment was made.

The put back date is looming and they are picking up where they left off. No doubt this was going to happen. You won't be the only one this will happen to but unfortunately you are one of the first.

You are absolutely right.

[jamesbrown]

The company sent an email saying all determinations were void. Contractors perform your own, which I did.

Now its sent another saying, previous evaluations stand.. wtf!!

Yeah, but you knew what they thought. Like you said, they determined your contract was inside.

At that point, you were taking a very big risk, regardless of whether they pulled their assessment because it was no longer necessary. Their opinion didn't change. Just the go live date for the legislation.

So, according to them, you were inside all along.

I hope your own assessment was backed by a professional contract/wp review, otherwise you haven't even done the due diligence.

In short, you're pretty stuffed. It's mostly your fault too, I'm afraid. Worse, since it's a big company, they probably have a lot of contractors onsite and it won't be long before this reaches HMRC. The best you can hope for is that their assessment is baseless and you have the proof. I doubt it.

[sludgesurfer]

This to me is simply a calculation of risk.

I had a not too dissimilar situation myself:

1. Qdos reviewed outside contract & WP review
2. Very late inside determination by small client based on IR35 shield assessment and an admission that they'd blanketed all their offshore contractors inside due to their perceived inability to substitute.
3. Client proposes brolly and a 35% rate increase
3. Appeal
4. Voided without reply to appeal when legislation was postponed
5. Discussed situation with Qdos as I was considering walking. In particular I wanted their take on a voided client inside determination
6. Re-review contract with Qdos to further tighten contract
7. Balanced risk vs reward
8. Decided to remain with client

Assessing the risk is a personal choice. I weighed up the likelihood and severity and decided I was comfortable with the risk. Whilst I might have done a bit more to reduce the likelihood, essentially we're in the same boat. Many more will be too.

As an aside, my accountant had a chap join their team who had previously worked with "HMRCs IR35 compliance team". My accountant relayed his experience and expectations to me around the (at that time) impending legislation change which also fed into my decision. This is highly anecdotal and second hand so I don't intend posting the details but it did allow me to adjust my estimate of the "likelihood" side of the equation.

[GhostofTarbera]

This to me is simply a calculation of risk.

I had a not too dissimilar situation myself:

1. Qdos reviewed outside contract & WP review
2. Very late inside determination by small client based on IR35 shield assessment and an admission that they'd blanketed all their offshore contractors inside due to their perceived inability to substitute.
3. Client proposes brolly and a 35% rate increase
3. Appeal
4. Voided without reply to appeal when legislation was postponed
5. Discussed situation with Qdos as I was considering walking. In particular I wanted their take on a voided client inside determination
6. Re-review contract with Qdos to further tighten contract
7. Balanced risk vs reward
8. Decided to remain with client

Assessing the risk is a personal choice. I weighed up the likelihood and severity and decided I was comfortable with the risk. Whilst I might have done a bit more to reduce the likelihood, essentially we're in the same boat. Many more will be too.

As an aside, my accountant had a chap join their team who had previously worked with "HMRCs IR35 compliance team". My accountant relayed his experience and expectations to me around the (at that time) impending legislation change which also fed into my decision. This is highly anecdotal and second hand so I don't intend posting the details but it did allow me to adjust my estimate of the "likelihood" side of the equation.

Wow you are so IR35 caught


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