Blanket IR35 Determination / "HR Policy Against PSC's" Blanket IR35 Determination / "HR Policy Against PSC's"
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  1. #1

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    Default Blanket IR35 Determination / "HR Policy Against PSC's"

    Here we go again. Clientco decided they will not engage with contractors via a ltd in a recent HR Policy change. Company in question is one of the larger energy businesses.

    I'll have been there 9 months in Jan, when my current contract comes to an end. I am clearly outside; onboarded during the pandemic, using BYOD devices and essentially set my own hours. They've asked what my thoughts are and I've said there's no way I'm going inside especially without additional remuneration. I gather finding work is fairly tough at the moment and that the market is a little dry, so I guess the question is walk the plank, or stay and hope Mr Taxman doesn't knock in a few years time? Anyone in a similar situation?

  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by mattfx View Post
    Here we go again. Clientco decided they will not engage with contractors via a ltd in a recent HR Policy change. Company in question is one of the larger energy businesses.

    I'll have been there 9 months in Jan, when my current contract comes to an end. I am clearly outside; onboarded during the pandemic, using BYOD devices and essentially set my own hours. They've asked what my thoughts are and I've said there's no way I'm going inside especially without additional remuneration. I gather finding work is fairly tough at the moment and that the market is a little dry, so I guess the question is walk the plank, or stay and hope Mr Taxman doesn't knock in a few years time? Anyone in a similar situation?
    Did you advise them of your Inside IR35 rate?

  3. #3

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    Many will be in a similar situation, whether or not they know it yet.

    But a policy against PSCs is not the same as a blanket determination w/r to IR35. This may seem like semantics, but it's important. The former is a perfectly legal and sensible. The latter is illegal.

  4. #4

    bored now

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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesbrown View Post
    Many will be in a similar situation, whether or not they know it yet.

    But a policy against PSCs is not the same as a blanket determination w/r to IR35. This may seem like semantics, but it's important. The former is a perfectly legal and sensible. The latter is illegal.
    Explicitly inside IR35 also opens up a whole set of problems regarding compliance that a blanket ban would avoid.
    merely at clientco for the entertainment

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by eek View Post
    Explicitly inside IR35 also opens up a whole set of problems regarding compliance that a blanket ban would avoid.
    Indeed. Any client operating a policy that is designed to minimise risk that doesn't simply apply a blanket ban on PSCs needs to have its head examined. You don't want the hassle of wrongful inside-IR35 determinations or the risk of an illegal blanket IR35 policy (i.e., all inside). The risk may not be symmetric, but it definitely cuts both ways.

  6. #6

    More fingers than teeth

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    If the client is refusing to engage PSC's, what alternative are they proposing? Are you direct or via an agency?

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesbrown View Post
    Many will be in a similar situation, whether or not they know it yet.

    But a policy against PSCs is not the same as a blanket determination w/r to IR35. This may seem like semantics, but it's important. The former is a perfectly legal and sensible. The latter is illegal.
    I'm not sure it's illegal.
    It's not lawful (in that the legislation says they shouldn't) but that's not the same as illegal.
    Strictly speaking it's neither till it's been tested, but the latter will likely be the test rather than the former.

    #pedantry

    IANAL.
    See You Next Tuesday

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lance View Post
    I'm not sure it's illegal.
    It's not lawful (in that the legislation says they shouldn't) but that's not the same as illegal.
    Strictly speaking it's neither till it's been tested, but the latter will likely be the test rather than the former.

    #pedantry

    IANAL.
    The updated ITEPA is enacted and comes into force from April 6 2021. So there is a law. By law, the client must issue an SDS, timely. An SDS is only an SDS when the client has taken “reasonable care”. A “blanket determination” will not demonstrate reasonable care and this was given by the OP, but my point was not about testing the boundaries of reasonable care.

  9. #9

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    Mods. Can we move to the right part of the forum please?
    'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

  10. #10

    More fingers than teeth

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    There are only legal consequences if not enough tax was paid i.e. contractors deemed outside are actually inside, so a blanket decision to put all contractors inside IR35 is the easiest option.
    I'm alright Jack

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