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Cest teet. Will the worker have to buy equipment before your organisation pays them?

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    Cest teet. Will the worker have to buy equipment before your organisation pays them?

    My end client has deemed me inside by answering no and yes to the following questions.

    Will the worker have to buy equipment before your organisation pays them?no

    Will the worker have any management responsibilities for your organisation?yes

    Now I have redone the test and I answered yes to the first question as I have to provide tradesman tools to do the job as the company does not provide this, things like screwdriver sets, socket sets, spanners, snips, wire cutters, mole grips, wire strippers, electrical testers, drills and other specialist tools, I also have to provide my own money to test checkouts, tills etc as the industry I work for is Epos.

    The other question ie management responsibilities I do not as I am employed as a engineer contractor and I don't have anything to do with this at all.

    Now is this good enough to class me outside of Ir35 as I understand equipment is a grey area.

    It would be quite expensive for the end client to buy all the tools required for every engineer.
    Last edited by Markus625; 21 January 2021, 23:49. Reason: Title spelling mistake

    #2
    Neither of those are important enough to make much difference but its very difficult to give you advice without all the other answers. If you are told where to go, what to do when then that's probably what will screw you not these two alone.

    Are you sure it was only those two that gave you the inside determination?
    You said you redid the test. What result did you get with your different answers? Surely you are in a better place to get the answer to your question than we are?

    Edit
    I am employed as a engineer contractor
    Ah there you go. You've put yourself inside so the test must be right.
    Last edited by northernladuk; 22 January 2021, 02:19.
    'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by northernladuk View Post
      Neither of those are important enough to make much difference but its very difficult to give you advice without all the other answers. If you are told where to go, what to do when then that's probably what will screw you not these two alone.

      Are you sure it was only those two that gave you the inside determination?
      You said you redid the test. What result did you get with your different answers? Surely you are in a better place to get the answer to your question than we are?

      Edit
      Ah there you go. You've put yourself inside so the test must be right.
      You could have put the word employed to make it clear why you said the OP is inside.

      Being blunt come April it's no longer your decision - it is up to the end client / your employer as to how they regard you.

      And it's quite common for engineers employees to use their own equipment so that really isn't a factor...
      merely at clientco for the entertainment

      Comment


        #4
        If you’re asking whether CEST is worthless then, yes, CEST is worthless. However, it really doesn’t matter how the client arrives at a decision for your SDS, post-April, only that they arrive at one and broadly justify it (low bar). Welcome to the new world where you’re no longer in control.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by jamesbrown View Post
          If you’re asking whether CEST is worthless then, yes, CEST is worthless. However, it really doesn’t matter how the client arrives at a decision for your SDS, post-April, only that they arrive at one and broadly justify it (low bar). Welcome to the new world where you’re no longer in control.
          Lets make this clear I am not employed I am a psc working for a agency who recruites engineers for the end client.

          They state all engineers must buy all these tools before you can commence work.

          It was this question that answered yes which gives an outside ir35 answer.

          I havnt even been given a KID document by the ajency yet which is law but that's another topic.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Markus625 View Post
            They state all engineers must buy all these tools before you can commence work.
            In that case, what has the client said when you challenged them about their answer to the CEST question?

            Is this need for engineers to purchase tools built into your contract?

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Paralytic View Post
              In that case, what has the client said when you challenged them about their answer to the CEST question?

              Is this need for engineers to purchase tools built into your contract?
              Many permies have their own tools. It's not exlusive to contractors so means nothing.
              'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by northernladuk View Post
                Many permies have their own tools. It's not exlusive to contractors so means nothing.
                I know; it doesn't invalidate the questions though. If the OP can get the client to re-do CEST and get an outside determination, there's a chance they could get that client to do an outside determination from April.

                Doubtful (as with most clients, they'll determine inside or ban PSCs) but its worth a shot. I suspect the client has answered CEST so as to get an inside determination as its easier to put that in front of contractors as the reasoning.
                Last edited by Paralytic; 22 January 2021, 11:14.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Paralytic View Post
                  I know; it doesn't invalidate the questions though. If the OP can get the client to re-do CEST and get an outside determination, there's a chance they could get that client to do an outside determination from April.

                  Doubtful (as with most clients, they'll determine inside or ban PSCs) but its worth a shot. I suspect the client has answered CEST so as to get an inside determination as its easier to put that in front of contractors as the reasoning.
                  I imagine some will fill the information in not really knowing how contrators work. Others will fill it in with a very risk averse view as well. I really don't think clients will be altering the facts to make it inside because that's what they want.
                  'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Markus625 View Post
                    They state all engineers must buy all these tools before you can commence work.
                    Very minor pointer, secondary to D&C, RoS and MoO (not even considered by CEST). Frankly, your opinion doesn't matter any more. What matters is the SDS. You can engage in the statutory client-led status disagreement process, of course.

                    Comment

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