Reply to: Deaths from Covid

[d000hg]

I think ( a loose term granted) that we are inflating it by counting anyone who has tested positive within the last twenty eight days. Doesn't mean that was a cause of death, especially in care homes.

Covid: UK virus deaths top 100,000 since pandemic began - BBC News

The ONS figures are based on death certificates that mention coronavirus as being involved in the death, Gov.uk simply includes everyone who dies within 28 days of a positive test. ONS figures are about 5% higher.

[d000hg]

Complacent isn't quite the word I want, more misplaced optimism perhaps. We saw that across most of Europe and other places, that lockdown really seemed to be working. Just as we (meaning many countries) were at the point of (maybe) being able to contain it, restrictions were lifted perhaps only a few weeks too soon.

The heights of the peaks vary a lot but the same pattern seemed to repeat on different time-lines. For a few weeks UK actually seemed to be doing well when it was starting to pick up again in Spain and France and not here... and again we missed a chance to capitalise on knowing what was coming, by waiting until it was bad to do something about it.

[Scoobos]

You're not following the cluster**** that is the Olympics then? Japan is a VERY different place to the UK anyway. I don't think a direct comparison makes much sense.

You'd be better comparing UK and Germany. They initially did very very well, but then even they succumbed to complacency and 2nd waves.

I've a differing point of view here really.

Firstly, the whole "second wave" thing , isn't really, its a resurgence - second wave is a political term for it imo - to defy the fact that we never truly contained it. Also I don't think they were complacent, but its harder to measure in Germany because powers were given to all the local zones / authorities, rather than centralised - which is what we tried really badly to copy with Tiers and lasted about 1 week.

Germany, whilst having a resurgence have approximately HALF the mortality rate, because they have working test and trace and that system also prioritises the at risk, on a centralised register (or so I am told). They implemented the same "app" and standard protocol that is out there and adopted by the majority of countries, following the HK/SK/WHO test trace isolate methodology. (The app is even open source, I believe!)

[Paralytic]

I've heard Matt answer at least one press question at the briefing "No. Next we have..."

But that was in response to "Can you answer a "Yes" or "No" question?"

[d000hg]

It'll probably be all topsy turvy but ultimately it's entertainment. If it's safe to go, no athlete is going to turn down the olympics apart from veterans who have been to several, possibly.

It's tough for the vast majority of athletes who are not very wealthy but even so, there are a lot of people a lot more in need of sympathy and support.

[Hobosapien]

It's a bit too late to be cancelling the Olympics seeing as they've already spent the money to host it last year. So they are wanting it to go ahead to recoup some of the cost from whatever income is generated when the event takes place.

I'd me more worried about the state of the athletes. Will they able to get up to peak competitive fitness in time, with all the disruption and lack of preparation events? Will those chosen for last year still be the best choice or should they have some form of re-selection if any are now injured or with long covid?

Tokyo 2020 uncertainty 'exhausting', says Olympic sailing champion Hannah Mills

[vetran]

From what I've seen in recent times the Olympics have been a massive problem to every country its been to in recent memory. Far to expensive and never leaves the sporting legacy its supposed to. Appears to be more of a curse than a blessing. Cancelling it might might be a bonus for them.

Dorney lake is lovely and the Olympic park gives Boris somewhere to get in trouble.

[northernladuk]

Should just switch the Olympics online and all countries compete at Daley Thompson's Decathlon

The eco leftists will be upset. The millions of ruined keyboards from rolling a golf ball over the run keys will be the next ecological disaster.

[ladymuck]

Should just switch the Olympics online and all countries compete at Daley Thompson's Decathlon

[northernladuk]

From what I've seen in recent times the Olympics have been a massive problem to every country its been to in recent memory. Far to expensive and never leaves the sporting legacy its supposed to. Appears to be more of a curse than a blessing. Cancelling it might might be a bonus for them.

[d000hg]

Hate to say it, but look at Japan. More populated, bigger average age, bigger air travel hub in Tokyo than London , similar lockdown style, but simply implemented decisively, quickly and authoritatively.

You're not following the cluster**** that is the Olympics then? Japan is a VERY different place to the UK anyway. I don't think a direct comparison makes much sense.

You'd be better comparing UK and Germany. They initially did very very well, but then even they succumbed to complacency and 2nd waves.

[d000hg]

Problem is neither Matt, Boris et al can answer a "Yes" or "No" question.

I've heard Matt answer at least one press question at the briefing "No. Next we have..."

[DoctorStrangelove]

Hate to say it, but look at Japan. More populated, bigger average age, bigger air travel hub in Tokyo than London , similar lockdown style, but simply implemented decisively, quickly and authoritatively.

I strongly believe the difference is indecisive leadership and very very poor decisions. All the experts in containing epidemics say it isn't necessarily what action you take, more than the speed and decisiveness that you take the action with.

We've mishandled this worse than anyone - at least America and Brazil were open about not giving a damn.

The only country (I think) that has a worse death per million rate is Italy and they were hit first with no real warning. (xogotth posted same time, there are a couple, but I think the point is still relevant)

I worked, during the initial pandemic on a core Covid project with Public health services and I was apalled when it became obvious that the current leadership had no confidence or faith in them, and simply wanted to call them "unable" or "failures" and then go to the Private sector on the premise that it would do better.

It's done far, far worse than NHS Digital, or PHE, PHS or PHW would have done. Far worse.

There's another poster on here I remember reading at the time, that I think was on a similar gig to me - and they also said that NHS Digital were not even approached.

For me, it's all been about politicising everything and trying to make a statement that we could not rely on the Public Sector and simply had to use multinational private companies. (local private companies were also massively ignored, with PPE production, Offers of test and trace assistance etc, in favor of Serco et al.)

'Tis odd, really, you'd almost suspect some form of corruption, whereas, in reality, it's simple incompetence led from the front (when he can be arsed) by Bozo the clown.

And a good dose of real corruption thrown in for good measure, like, just to make sure.

[SueEllen]

Maybe you should pose this to the next briefing "Aren't the covid death figures misleading as they include covid sufferers run over and shot"? See if Matt/Boris can keep a straight face. I wonder if they keep an informal record of the dumbest question they had to answer?

Problem is neither Matt, Boris et al can answer a "Yes" or "No" question.

[d000hg]

Correct. Get hit by a train 27 days after a positive test? COVID. Get shot in an armed robbery while I’ll? COVID. Get swept away in today’s storms while having a persistent cough? COVID. WALOB.

Maybe you should pose this to the next briefing "Aren't the covid death figures misleading as they include covid sufferers run over and shot"? See if Matt/Boris can keep a straight face. I wonder if they keep an informal record of the dumbest question they had to answer?

This kind of nonsense is how conspiracies are made... take a tiny grain of truth and then blow it up.