Outside IR35 Not Many Changes Outside IR35 Not Many Changes
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  1. #1

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    Default Outside IR35 Not Many Changes

    Just catching up on the budget as thought it was about time i did so.

    From my understanding as long as you fall under IR35 and work via your own limited company and not under the direction supervision and control of the client then the only changes this budget is really implementing is dividend tax changing and NI contributions is that correct ?

    Obveriously HMRC will investigate into the direction and control a little more i believe but is there anything else that i should missed ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by eddie1507 View Post
    Just catching up on the budget as thought it was about time i did so.

    From my understanding as long as you fall under IR35 and work via your own limited company and not under the direction supervision and control of the client then the only changes this budget is really implementing is dividend tax changing and NI contributions is that correct ?

    Obveriously HMRC will investigate into the direction and control a little more i believe but is there anything else that i should missed ?
    Its Direction, Supervision or Control (any one of them) or the right to Direction, Supervision or Control... And its hard not to fall under it as the rules are very broad to capture everyone (I believe you can argue that a criminal judge and an MP would fail to work around those rules)..

    Then we have the great unknown where anyone supplied via an agency is automatically subject to SDorC (although that may not be 100% accurate)..

    So the first impact will be no expenses from 5/4/16... Then IR35 may be tightened to be based on SDorC on 5/4/17 with potentionally the same logic that via agency = SDorC...

    So I really wouldn't say that nothing is changing. Our entire industry could be gone in 18 months...
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    Quote Originally Posted by eek View Post
    Its Direction, Supervision or Control (any one of them) or the right to Direction, Supervision or Control... And its hard not to fall under it as the rules are very broad to capture everyone (I believe you can argue that a criminal judge and an MP would fail to work around those rules)..

    Then we have the great unknown where anyone supplied via an agency is automatically subject to SDorC (although that may not be 100% accurate)..

    So the first impact will be no expenses from 5/4/16... Then IR35 may be tightened to be based on SDorC on 5/4/17 with potentionally the same logic that via agency = SDorC...

    So I really wouldn't say that nothing is changing. Our entire industry could be gone in 18 months...
    Thanks for the response.

    Via agency your referring to recruitment agency or umbrella agency ?

    If we were to fall under supervision would that mean then we are inside ir35? And have the 5% expense rule ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by eddie1507 View Post
    Thanks for the response.

    Via agency your referring to recruitment agency or umbrella agency ?

    If we were to fall under supervision would that mean then we are inside ir35? And have the 5% expense rule ?
    Recruitment agency. Supervision is currently enough to fall under the new look ir35. And as its changing there may not be a 5% expense rule
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    Quote Originally Posted by eek View Post
    Recruitment agency. Supervision is currently enough to fall under the new look ir35. And as its changing there may not be a 5% expense rule
    Is this guy for real ? Not you Eek, the OP
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    Quote Originally Posted by TestMangler View Post
    Is this guy for real ? Not you Eek, the OP
    Sadly yep. It's remarkable how few people know this stuff because they depend on their accountants to keep them up to date and their accountants don't understand what is happening.

    On level on knowledge I think your typical person on here knows most.
    Then iPse members
    Then you typical none iPse contractor (who will know very little and understand less).

    At least two posters have said today that their colleagues know nothing I'm sure it's the same at my current client I except those who I'm working directly with so know where I am tomorrow afternoon and why
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    Quote Originally Posted by eek View Post
    So I really wouldn't say that nothing is changing. Our entire industry could be gone in 18 months...
    It is all just ifs and buts so far. Proposals, discussion papers and government statements are very different from actual law. There isn't much point in suffering 1000 times for something which may never become law, or in trying to second guess what eventual laws may turn out to be. As for contracting disappearing - unlikely. Nearly all large companies depend on contractors, who form an integral part of their operating model.

    The only danger really is that we have no representative body (I don't count IPSE), and are therefore more vulnerable than other groups. Contracting won't disappear - the big companies who hire us will see to that. But it may well become less profitable, and permanent salaries might also be driven down in consequence, something the big companies would also like.

    We (all freelancers) ought to form a real representative body (like the PCG was), and quickly.

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    Default Outside IR35 Not Many Changes

    Yep we need something led by people who are willing to listen to options and not just try and defend their single idea.

    I'm not volunteering though. I have enough on with the survey and getting a decent plan for a project based ir35 test or anything else that an end client could reliable use but not abuse.

    If anyone has any ideas no matter how half baked ( any plan is probably more sane and rational than the flc) please post in the http://forums.contractoruk.com/accou...rinciples.html thread and if you haven't filled in a survey yet see my signature
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    Quote Originally Posted by TestMangler View Post
    Is this guy for real ? Not you Eek, the OP
    This. You can't move in here for threads about this but someone still has to ask weeks later. I'd guess he's not bothered to fill any of the surveys that might actually help us either.
    Last edited by northernladuk; 24th August 2015 at 23:08.
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    Thought I read a thread the other day where people suggested you'd probably be OK if you could prove any one of SD&C did not apply.

    Did I misread or have things changed?
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