Anyone speaking to clients about the proposed changes? Anyone speaking to clients about the proposed changes?
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Posts 1 to 10 of 12
  1. #1

    Should post faster

    pjt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    Glasgow
    Posts
    174

    Default Anyone speaking to clients about the proposed changes?

    I've raised concerns, the feeling here from senior management is that anything brought in to kill off contracting will fail. I know its what we already think but its good to here it from the clients side also.

  2. #2

    Should post faster


    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    126

    Default

    Mine's a direct client in another EU country that I work for remotely from the UK. How the possible changes affect my contract is anyone's guess. Presumably the government can't force them to take me onto payroll, but then as I'm in the UK does that mean that if I fail the tests the contract has to be terminated? It's all a stupid, ill thought out mess, whatever the details.

  3. #3

    Super poster


    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Posts
    2,905

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by javadude View Post
    Mine's a direct client in another EU country that I work for remotely from the UK. How the possible changes affect my contract is anyone's guess. Presumably the government can't force them to take me onto payroll, but then as I'm in the UK does that mean that if I fail the tests the contract has to be terminated? It's all a stupid, ill thought out mess, whatever the details.
    I'm similar, though because I have multiple clients I may be ok.

    I'm guessing they will say if you fail their test that you will have to operate IR35 yourself. But that would be worse than contractors who are on client payrolls here, where the client pays the NI. So if we're lucky, they will say that you have to operate IR35 but not the employer NI portion of it, since employer NI is not payable for non-UK employers. It would be perverse to say that a "disguised employee" has to pay more tax than a real employee.

    Actually, they may just ignore people like us, because there are so few of us, and because most doing contracting work for foreign companies with no UK presence are probably not under SDC anyway. I'm not. And how would they prove me wrong if I say I'm not? My contracts are pretty clear on those points.

    Write clear contracts, and carry on invoicing.

  4. #4

    My post count is Majestic

    northernladuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    43,331

    Default

    I've given mine the heads up because I work away from home so the current rate means I won't be there past April if T&S hits. He's got time now to think about it. They can either put a plan in to replace me or heads up my rate will have to go up.
    Someone suggested I'd shot myself in the foot but I see it as taking a calculated risk. They aren't going to get anyone in too quick due to the problems we've been having with recruitment already and at worst they may find someone and give me notice a month or two early but that's really no skin off my nose. I really don't think it will happen either.

    Haven't really mentioned the IR35 thing though. To early for that and would just be scaremongering.
    'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

  5. #5

    Nice But Dim

    DaveB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    20,406

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by northernladuk View Post
    I've given mine the heads up because I work away from home so the current rate means I won't be there past April if T&S hits. He's got time now to think about it. They can either put a plan in to replace me or heads up my rate will have to go up.
    Someone suggested I'd shot myself in the foot but I see it as taking a calculated risk. They aren't going to get anyone in too quick due to the problems we've been having with recruitment already and at worst they may find someone and give me notice a month or two early but that's really no skin off my nose. I really don't think it will happen either.

    Haven't really mentioned the IR35 thing though. To early for that and would just be scaremongering.
    Going to wait till after the AS before I do that. At least that way I can give them some facts. Bit otherwise, yes, will potentially be the same situation with Client A.
    "Being nice costs nothing and sometimes gets you extra bacon" - Pondlife.

  6. #6

    More time posting than coding


    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    223

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveB View Post
    Going to wait till after the AS before I do that. At least that way I can give them some facts. Bit otherwise, yes, will potentially be the same situation with Client A.
    I'm in a contract with one insurance company running a PMO for a portfolio of business change projects. My boss is a permacontractor and some of people there have been contracting to them for up to 14 years, running projects one after another. Those guys work from home a lot.

    I am here until October 16. I mentioned it to the Head of HR an hour ago on Lync, he took 10 mins to reply, I think he had passed out. He said he was shocked and rather worried. They have 50% of their project people as contractors and have no budget or facility to take them in as FTC or Perm.

    It did feel good to share the pain.

  7. #7

    Super poster


    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Mainly on a train
    Posts
    3,060

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkT View Post
    I'm in a contract with one insurance company running a PMO for a portfolio of business change projects. My boss is a permacontractor and some of people there have been contracting to them for up to 14 years, running projects one after another. Those guys work from home a lot.

    I am here until October 16. I mentioned it to the Head of HR an hour ago on Lync, he took 10 mins to reply, I think he had passed out. He said he was shocked and rather worried. They have 50% of their project people as contractors and have no budget or facility to take them in as FTC or Perm.

    It did feel good to share the pain.
    That's similar to where I am. The client is generally excellent. They bring in contractors for a specific project and then they go again. They have a few permtractors but not too many.

    Contracts are back to back with the agency. I know from having had one changed and having to sit down with the client's procurement team to get a change made.

    The client doesn't want lots of on the books contractors. It wants flexibility. If the T&S changes come in it will lose some good resource very quickly unless rates increase. If it has to have them on the books it will grind to a halt very quickly.

    I have spoken with a couple of managers there and they have been surprisingly helpful. However, it may be well out of the client's hands.

  8. #8

    Super poster

    meridian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    4,515

    Default

    14 years? FFS. It's exactly those kinds of permatractors that Gideon's after.

    The client can arrange their affairs however they like, and if they want to pay a higher rate for a long term temporary employee then that's their prerogative, but the "contractors" would find it very difficult to defend any business test. HMRC are missing out on employer's NICs and the temporary employees should probably be under IR35.

  9. #9

    I Am Legend


    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    108,496

    Default

    After 14 years I reckon you can claim employment rights. Would be an interesting court case.
    Fight HMRC now! Help sue HMRC individual officers/government ministers for malfeasance in office. Visit https://www.loanchargejustice.com/ and scroll to the bottom of the page to donate.

  10. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by meridian View Post
    14 years? FFS. It's exactly those kinds of permatractors that Gideon's after.

    The client can arrange their affairs however they like, and if they want to pay a higher rate for a long term temporary employee then that's their prerogative, but the "contractors" would find it very difficult to defend any business test. HMRC are missing out on employer's NICs and the temporary employees should probably be under IR35.
    I think in that kind of scenario multiple clients could be a mitigating factor, as some audit firms have had relationships with their clients that run in multiples of that. But I guess by calling them "permatractors" it is to be inferred they don't have multiple, concurrent clients.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •