Treasury response to "Don't extend IR35 reforms to Private sector" petition (no news)

[billybiro]

Jesus I bet you are fun at a party!

If I told you that we're all going to die someday would it make you feel better?

[flamel]

They have told their underlings(parliament) to throw us under a bus.

Only after a "consultation" that concluded it would be good for buses in general and that being run over by a bus would have no material impact on your body.

[Joolsey86]

Reply from my local Conservative MP.

"the initial evidence suggests that reforms to IR35 in the public sector have been successful in improving compliance. However the cost of non-compliance in the private sector is still growing. If a possible next step would be to extend these reforms to the private sector, the government has said it will carefully consult on this, taking into account the needs of businesses and individuals such as yourself."

I.e. LALALA not listening, I don't care, just following party line.

I will never vote Conservative again. I will take pleasure in telling him in two words (IR and 35) why I will never vote for them again - the next time he is canvassing outside my station to be elected.

They are too focussed on power, and not principle.

[BrilloPad]

"the initial evidence suggests that reforms to IR35 in the public sector have been successful in improving compliance. However the cost of non-compliance in the private sector is still growing. If a possible next step would be to extend these reforms to the private sector, the government has said it will carefully consult on this, taking into account the needs of businesses and individuals such as yourself."

I.e. LALALA not listening, I don't care, just following party line.

I will never vote Conservative again. I will take pleasure in telling him in two words (IR and 35) why I will never vote for them again - the next time he is canvassing outside my station to be elected.

They are too focussed on power, and not principle.

Then you are missing the point.

In 2008 David Gauke described retrospection as abhorrent. 2 years later he was saying how wonderful it was.

MPs do as the HMRC masters tell them.

I am not sure of the solution(though I have not voted Tory/Liebour for a few years and never will again). However at least I understand the problem.

[Joolsey86]

Then you are missing the point.

In 2008 David Gauke described retrospection as abhorrent. 2 years later he was saying how wonderful it was.

MPs do as the HMRC masters tell them.

I am not sure of the solution(though I have not voted Tory/Liebour for a few years and never will again). However at least I understand the problem.

I am not missing the point and know how it works.

But if the supposed party of free enterprise listens to the trots in HMRC, then they cannot have my vote.

As a gaggle of contractors we need to be more forceful about how many lost votes this policy will cause the Conservatives.

[BrilloPad]

I am not missing the point and know how it works.

But if the supposed party of free enterprise listens to the trots in HMRC, then they cannot have my vote.

As a gaggle of contractors we need to be more forceful about how many lost votes this policy will cause the Conservatives.

So you are still missing the point. Whoever gets into power will not tackle HMRC.

"we"? "we"? Contractors make cats look organized.

Look through this forum sub-section threads. Several posters welcome these HMRC changes! As they are not caught, everyone else is.

They do not realize that HMRC believe we are all caught. HMRC want every decision both ways. Have their cake and eat it. Applied retrospectively - applied with powers more suitable to NK.

I have tried to change the law twice - once through f4j. Once through NTRT. At least f4j we achieved some measure of practical changes. NTRT spectacularly unsuccessful. Proof that HMRC lied to parliament and no way of rectifying it.

Now I am getting a bit fed up of being nice to you. You are clearly too stupid to listen. Any further responses and I am going to invite you outside(i.e. a thread in general) where I can give you a proper shoeing. I am very depressed (due to HMRC) and could do with an innocent to take it out on.....

[LondonManc]

"the initial evidence suggests that reforms to IR35 in the public sector have been successful in improving compliance."

What that means is that a self-fulfilling prophecy has come to pass.
HMRC has determined that x,000 contracts should be inside IR35 and told public sector to do it. A high percentage have complied regardless of the right or wrong of doing so and judging each contract on its own merit, as the guidelines suggested. QED, more compliance.

The problem is that the right people need throwing under a bus - those behaving as employees. No retrospection, just a case of, right, we're doing it this way now, fold your company, go umbrella. I've seen contractors gladly using permie discounts left, right and centre yet staunchly believe they are outside because the agency said so.

[Joolsey86]

So you are still missing the point. Whoever gets into power will not tackle HMRC.

"we"? "we"? Contractors make cats look organized.

Look through this forum sub-section threads. Several posters welcome these HMRC changes! As they are not caught, everyone else is.

They do not realize that HMRC believe we are all caught. HMRC want every decision both ways. Have their cake and eat it. Applied retrospectively - applied with powers more suitable to NK.

I have tried to change the law twice - once through f4j. Once through NTRT. At least f4j we achieved some measure of practical changes. NTRT spectacularly unsuccessful. Proof that HMRC lied to parliament and no way of rectifying it.

Now I am getting a bit fed up of being nice to you. You are clearly too stupid to listen. Any further responses and I am going to invite you outside(i.e. a thread in general) where I can give you a proper shoeing. I am very depressed (due to HMRC) and could do with an innocent to take it out on.....

I think you are a bit too full of your own hubris (accusing anyone who disagreed with you as stupid), and need to calm down mate (bad use of the word mate). You should use your brillopad to wipe away your acerbic edge.

-- And I know whoever is in power will let the HMRC do whatever they will to increase their revenue, (so long as it doesn't affect them). It doesn't mean a lifelong Conservative voter (who thought he was voting for low tax and free enterprise), cannot express his dissatisfaction in them stooping so low.

[TheFaQQer]

"the initial evidence suggests that reforms to IR35 in the public sector have been successful in improving compliance."

There is a difference between "improving compliance" and "increased tax revenue".

Even if every contract was assessed as outside, there would still be improved compliance because there is more evidence that people are making the decisions based on the situation. Improved compliance is easy to claim. Increased tax revenue (the main reason to do this) is a different matter.

[mattfx]

I think you are a bit too full of your own hubris (accusing anyone who disagreed with you as stupid), and need to calm down mate (bad use of the word mate). You should use your brillopad to wipe away your acerbic edge.

-- And I know whoever is in power will let the HMRC do whatever they will to increase their revenue, (so long as it doesn't affect them). It doesn't mean a lifelong Conservative voter (who thought he was voting for low tax and free enterprise), cannot express his dissatisfaction in them stooping so low.

But what Brillo is saying is correct - why on earth do you think it'l make a difference? Tory, Labour, Lib Dem, whoever gets in, will all bow down to HMRC. You'd be just as well going into the ballot box and drawing a phallus on your paper as a protest vote.

The bigger issue is the country has a massive deficit and needs to collect additional tax revenue. HMRC cannot be bothered to go after large enterprises paying minimal amounts of tax in this country because that costs them money, and is too difficult (and all the HMRC permies like their 3pm finish on a Friday and other such cushy permie perks). So instead of going after these large corps, they elect to raise revenue through the only means they know how; via small businesses - easy, defenseless targets. By voting away from Tory you're effectively voting Corbyn in, and he's already said he wants to increase corp tax. So you can kiss your divi thresholds goodbye too, because they will be next.

Unfortunately, a vote for Tory leads to increased taxation, and a vote away from Tory leads to even further increased taxation. It's a lose lose.

Personally, I shall by practicing my best Phallic drawing with my favourite colour of Crayola.