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  1. #41

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    I think after the first year, the private sector will eventually find a way when they realise they need flexible resource and everything will be back to normal

  2. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by darkwingduck View Post
    I think after the first year, the private sector will eventually find a way when they realise they need flexible resource and everything will be back to normal
    Entropy is NOT what it used to be.
    Inertia, however........................

  3. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by BR14 View Post
    +1

    HMRC learnt from Arctic. The Costelloe victory will help HMRC too.

    Contractors might stand a chance if they all work together....

  4. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrilloPad View Post
    +1

    HMRC learnt from Arctic. The Costelloe victory will help HMRC too.

    Contractors might stand a chance if they all work together....
    But other recent cases have pushed it back the other way. If you deem a worker to be inside IR35, then there are serious costs associated with that decision that currently are borne by the worker that are going on your bottom line.

    There is a simple and effective solution, which is to engage contractors on proper B2B terms so IR35 is a distant memory. Rather than trying to persuade a deaf Chancellor that he's wrong, we should be educating the clients on how to use us properly - and, horror of horrors, we have to stop expecting to be paid nice and regularly like permies and take on a bit of the risk ourselves.

    As for work together - CBI, FSB, ICAEW, IPSE, IoD and various other minor groups are heavily on the case. However you will notice the agencies are focussing on teaching their clients how to minimise the costs of the change so their own income and lazy business model is unaffected. So don't expect a lot of help from REC and APSCo.
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  5. #45

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    Two reasons why contracting won't die.
    1. Plenty of contractors go through brollies.
    2. A minority of contractors/clients will establish direct B2B contracts.
    "Boom! Boom!" - B. Brush

  6. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkT View Post
    So, that's that then I guess. No more contracting, unless we can fight it as a group and gain enough traction with Tory MPs to stop it by 2020. Not much chance of that, but you have to try.

    Won't somebody think of the accountants?
    "unless we can fight it as a group"

    so far although some groups exist, little has been achieved by them in the fight against IR35

    edit
    as I see it, IT contractors were originally the main target for IR35. However, the public sector roll out of the new rules has shown there is collateral damage in areas, e.g. the Health Service and the BBC, that HMG might not have foreseen. The PCG/IPSE was formed principally by IT contractors and as such, I guess HMG views this organisation as having self interest in opposing IR35.

    Until recent times and the roll out of the new rules, I would judge that other long standing organisations whose members might not have intentionally been the original target of IR35, but who are now being caught in the net, have remained indifferent to the issues.

    I really can't see IPSE being viewed with anything other than derision by HMG, and it might be better for them to work in the background with other organisations that HMG has more respect for and which existed prior to the advent of IR35 e.g. the organisation representing locum doctors.
    Last edited by JohntheBike; 16th May 2019 at 07:56.

  7. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by malvolio View Post
    But other recent cases have pushed it back the other way. If you deem a worker to be inside IR35, then there are serious costs associated with that decision that currently are borne by the worker that are going on your bottom line.

    There is a simple and effective solution, which is to engage contractors on proper B2B terms so IR35 is a distant memory. Rather than trying to persuade a deaf Chancellor that he's wrong, we should be educating the clients on how to use us properly - and, horror of horrors, we have to stop expecting to be paid nice and regularly like permies and take on a bit of the risk ourselves.

    As for work together - CBI, FSB, ICAEW, IPSE, IoD and various other minor groups are heavily on the case. However you will notice the agencies are focussing on teaching their clients how to minimise the costs of the change so their own income and lazy business model is unaffected. So don't expect a lot of help from REC and APSCo.
    Currently I am negotiating a direct contract with a big corporation. A project manager uses clueless HR that uses clueless Employee relations advisors. They could not change anything without that lawyers review while that lawyers even have no clue about SDC. They have a title "Employee relations advisor" and think if they repeatedly stating a duck is not a duck that is more than enough.

    I am trying to educate them with plain English and HMRC manuals, case law etc. But I think it will not work.
    They do not want to be educated. They are OK and they have no problem and they do not see any problems.
    That is the end.

    It seems for me no more grey colour and it goes to black and white. Either umbrella or business terms on your corporative web-site where you are no more Human and no more Resource.

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