My Note to IPSE Today My Note to IPSE Today - Page 2
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  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by ContractBunny View Post
    the fact that the IR35 battle is basically lost.
    Is that a fact?

    I thought the battle was not even started yet. After all you posted in "The Future of Contracting". Not "The Present of Contracting" or "The History of Contracting".

    Once IPSE joins with QDOS and the current schemes fighting HMRC (LCAG, NTRT, to learn from past mistakes) it will be a doddle.

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by malvolio View Post
    Not according to their research they don't, most members consider themselves not to be caught, rightly or wrongly. It rather depends on how you view that scope of course.

    Also don't forget their remit is a little wider than us IT types these days; lots of absolutely genuine independents are at risk as well if the PS rules are extended
    "most members consider themselves not to be caught, rightly or wrongly"

    there's the rub. It would be interesting to see how many of those who claim they are working outside of IR35, have had their current or past contracts formally assessed by an expert in employment law. The only sure way is for a court to judge. But, there again, just as in the public sector, private clients will adopt a risk averse approach and class all of their contractors as caught. HMRC will easily deal with the very small number of complainants, by conceding, just as they did in the Wiltshire case, whilst reaping the increased tax take from those who do not complain, or are able to adopt other strategies, e.g. increasing their rate.

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohntheBike View Post
    "most members consider themselves not to be caught, rightly or wrongly"

    there's the rub. It would be interesting to see how many of those who claim they are working outside of IR35, have had their current or past contracts formally assessed by an expert in employment law. The only sure way is for a court to judge. But, there again, just as in the public sector, private clients will adopt a risk averse approach and class all of their contractors as caught. HMRC will easily deal with the very small number of complainants, by conceding, just as they did in the Wiltshire case, whilst reaping the increased tax take from those who do not complain, or are able to adopt other strategies, e.g. increasing their rate.
    Something over 80% last time I looked, probably more. Most IPSE members are quite well informed about such things anyway.

    But you're repeating history to some extent. Several large organisations, not just IPSE, are attacking HMT's plans; this fight is nowhere near won yet.
    Blog? What blog...?

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by malvolio View Post
    Something over 80% last time I looked, probably more. Most IPSE members are quite well informed about such things anyway.

    But you're repeating history to some extent. Several large organisations, not just IPSE, are attacking HMT's plans; this fight is nowhere near won yet.
    "Something over 80% last time I looked"

    So, you are claiming that 80% of those IPSE members who claim to be working outside of IR35, have had their contracts ruled as outside by professionals well versed in employment law?

    If so, how did you establish that fact?

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohntheBike View Post
    But, there again, just as in the public sector, private clients will adopt a risk averse approach and class all of their contractors as caught. .
    But that's simply not true. There are plenty of outside contractors in the Public sector.
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  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohntheBike View Post
    "Something over 80% last time I looked"

    So, you are claiming that 80% of those IPSE members who claim to be working outside of IR35, have had their contracts ruled as outside by professionals well versed in employment law?

    If so, how did you establish that fact?
    Members survey results perhaps?

    Also B&C, QDOS, AbbeyTax and the rest are pretty good on their knowledge.
    Blog? What blog...?

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by northernladuk View Post
    But that's simply not true. There are plenty of outside contractors in the Public sector.
    time will tell.

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohntheBike View Post
    time will tell.
    Maybe but getting your facts right first will help.
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  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by ContractBunny View Post
    Of course there other reasons including the fact that the IR35 battle is basically lost.
    Not sure I agree with this one...

    It has been ongoing for 19 years and will likely continue for another 19. Sure the argument has shifted slightly as has the thrust but it is safe to say that there will now develop a whole other raft of considerations to explore.

    Don't lose the faith just yet.

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by northernladuk View Post
    Maybe but getting your facts right first will help.
    I can only judge by the plethora of articles, which suggest that a majority, if not all, of public sector contractors are being judged as inside IR35 by CEST, irrespective of what the reality is, and that public sector organisations are adopting a reduced risk approach by doing so.

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