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Labour to raise dividend tax from 7.5% to 20%

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    #21
    Originally posted by Maslins View Post
    There is an argument, which I appreciate some people don't like, that the tax system shouldn't subsidise business owners by letting them pay a lower rate of tax than employees.
    When the government stops using the tax system to subsidise or penalise other behaviours, this argument would have more moral force.

    As long as we're going to use the tax system to incentivise behaviour that we think is beneficial to society, anyone to the right of Corbyn (AKA anyone with a brain) knows that entrepreneurship is beneficial.

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      #22
      Originally posted by WordIsBond View Post
      When the government stops using the tax system to subsidise or penalise other behaviours, this argument would have more moral force.

      As long as we're going to use the tax system to incentivise behaviour that we think is beneficial to society, anyone to the right of Corbyn (AKA anyone with a brain) knows that entrepreneurship is beneficial.
      Not when around 60% of all new businesses failing within the first 3 years, it isn't.

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        #23
        Originally posted by WordIsBond View Post
        anyone to the right of Corbyn (AKA anyone with a brain) knows that entrepreneurship is beneficial.
        Originally posted by billybiro View Post
        Not when around 60% of all new businesses failing within the first 3 years, it isn't.
        Thanks for identifying where you fall on the with/without a brain spectrum.

        I started a new company four years ago. That's entrepreneurship. I now have six employees besides myself. The effort has provided jobs for seven people (counting me).

        If 60% fail, and 40% succeed and provide jobs for, on average, even 3 people, it's easily a net positive. Existing companies fail all the time, if new companies aren't started there aren't going to be jobs for people. This is simple logic.

        No economy will survive without entrepreneurship. Could it be better? Sure. Could the government do more to encourage / facilitate it and improve that ratio? Perhaps. But the fact that it doesn't succeed all the time hardly makes it less important.

        If you have income coming in it is because sometime, somewhere, someone decided to take a risk and start a company.

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          #24
          Originally posted by WordIsBond View Post
          Thanks for identifying where you fall on the with/without a brain spectrum.

          I started a new company four years ago. That's entrepreneurship. I now have six employees besides myself. The effort has provided jobs for seven people (counting me).

          If 60% fail, and 40% succeed and provide jobs for, on average, even 3 people, it's easily a net positive. Existing companies fail all the time, if new companies aren't started there aren't going to be jobs for people. This is simple logic.

          No economy will survive without entrepreneurship. Could it be better? Sure. Could the government do more to encourage / facilitate it and improve that ratio? Perhaps. But the fact that it doesn't succeed all the time hardly makes it less important.

          If you have income coming in it is because sometime, somewhere, someone decided to take a risk and start a company.

          That's a great post.

          I wonder how many prospective Labour voters (and let's face it McCorbyn is very hostile to entrepreneurship) will draw the connection between things they use in everyday life and the role of entrepreneurship in bringing it about. That Amazon started as one man in a garage. Or Facebook starting in a dorm room. Similar stories for Apple and Microsoft. But crucially they could never have grown without investors taking a risk being prepared to lose their entire investment backing them. In Labours Britain why would anyone bother... they will just take their money elsewhere?

          I do have a suggestion for any budding entrepreneur if Labour get in, though. Oil drums. Anybody old enough to remember the 1970's (I am) will remember pictures of pickets outside offices and factories. They always had oil drums with fires inside to keep themselves warm. Of course nobody born later will have any idea what I am talking about because mass picketing and secondary action were banned by Thatchers government. McCorbyn will legalise it again so you might find your workplace shut down because of a completely unrelated strike somewhere else. A complete scurge that I thought was consigned to the history books.

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            #25
            Originally posted by WordIsBond View Post
            Thanks for identifying where you fall on the with/without a brain spectrum.
            Originally posted by WordIsBond View Post
            if new companies aren't started there aren't going to be jobs for people. This is simple logic.
            And thanks for identifying where you fall on that same spectrum, if you're unaware that jobs can be created by existing companies expanding.

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              #26
              Originally posted by billybiro View Post
              And thanks for identifying where you fall on that same spectrum, if you're unaware that jobs can be created by existing companies expanding.
              Oh, you're right. I never thought of that. Fortunately, ToysRUs, Thomas Cook, BHS, Debenhams, Mothercare, Northern Rock, HMV, Comet, Woolworths, De La Rue, and Bury FC are all hiring those failed entrepreneurs to take up the slack.

              Soon, we'll all be disguised employees of Amazon, Tesco, and Google. With no entrepreneurship, business activity and employment will be increasingly concentrated. Soon, there won't be any competition in the job market, so they can engage us on whatever terms they like.

              I'm sure you are very good at what you do. I'm also sure that it isn't economics.

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                #27
                Originally posted by WordIsBond View Post
                Oh, you're right. I never thought of that. Fortunately, ToysRUs, Thomas Cook, BHS, Debenhams, Mothercare, Northern Rock, HMV, Comet, Woolworths, De La Rue, and Bury FC are all hiring those failed entrepreneurs to take up the slack.

                Soon, we'll all be disguised employees of Amazon, Tesco, and Google. With no entrepreneurship, business activity and employment will be increasingly concentrated. Soon, there won't be any competition in the job market, so they can engage us on whatever terms they like.

                I'm sure you are very good at what you do. I'm also sure that it isn't economics.
                I went to Germany in 1990, not long after the fall of the Berlin Wall. West Germany was a land of BMWs, Audis and Mercedes. A land of competition where weak companies with bad ideas, execution or marketing went to the wall. A land of prosperity and plenty.

                Then someone turned up in a Trabant. From a land where there was a single car manufacturer, so the problem of duplication in things like research and marketing didn't exist. Unfortunately, neither did competition. The result was a car made from plastic with a polluting 2 stroke engine which hadn't been updated in decades. Oh, which was about as long as you would have to wait for one.

                The thing is if new companies don't come along the old ones become complacent and lazy because they have no incentive to be inventive or efficient. In the end everyone suffers with lower living standards and worse public services because the wealth doesn't exist to support them.

                But if Corbyn gets elected we will have plenty of chance to learn/experience at first hand the reality of Eastern Bloc economics.

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                  #28
                  Originally posted by Nazaire99 View Post
                  But if Corbyn gets elected we will have plenty of chance to learn/experience at first hand the reality of Eastern Bloc economics.
                  Seriously? Corbyns policies are mostly based around social democratic values

                  Nothing will stifle entrepreneurship more than a us style health system

                  I'm not a labour voter but can see that

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                    #29
                    Originally posted by coder View Post
                    Seriously? Corbyns policies are mostly based around social democratic values

                    Nothing will stifle entrepreneurship more than a us style health system

                    I'm not a labour voter but can see that
                    Ever been to the US? Doesn't seem to have hurt entrepreneurship there, in fact it's booming compared to here.

                    Not that it matters. Labour has been telling us for decades that the Tories are going to bring in US style health, and the Tories have been in power most of that time. Either Labour was wrong or the Tories are so incompetent in doing it that we have nothing to worry about.

                    Finally, Karl Marx's policies were mostly based around social democratic values, too. It's just that they were taken to such an extreme that they were completely destructive. And tolerating anti-Semitism isn't a social democratic value. It's a stain on the history of this country that we even have to talk about the possibility of Prime Minister Corbyn and a main opposition party riddled with anti-Semitism. An electorate that cared about decency would repudiate any party that tolerates so many of these people.

                    Comment


                      #30
                      Originally posted by coder View Post
                      Seriously? Corbyns policies are mostly based around social democratic values

                      Nothing will stifle entrepreneurship more than a us style health system

                      I'm not a labour voter but can see that
                      So you are seriously suggesting that Jeremy Corbyn is a social democrat? And there is me thinking he is a Marxist. Certainly Mcdonnell is - he is on record saying that he is. He has also said that he wants to destroy the capitalist system. Policies that have the effect of confiscating private property (nationalisation at below market price, confiscating 10% of company shares) are definitely out of the Marxist playbook. Capitalism can survive taxes but what is insidious about Labour policies is how they undermine property rights - which is the basis of a free society.

                      As for the NHS who has said Johnson will privatise it except Corbyn? Another one of his mad conspiracy theories. The man is deranged.

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