Why am I paying Employers NI? Why am I paying Employers NI? - Page 3
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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheep1019284 View Post
    Apologies if this has been answered on other threads...

    When being setting rate expectations with prospective clients who will only consider contractors via an umbrella company...

    Is it right to ask the question to the employer...

    "At 400 per day, do you also pay on top of that a rate to the umbrella company that covers the umbrella margin, employer national insurance & Apprenticeship levy?"

    ?

    Is it the general consensus that the end client should legally be factoring this into an 'assignment rate'? I noted that on various umbrella calculators the breakdown deducts Margin, Employers NI & levy from your take home as an example.
    Always worth asking. A rate uplift of 30-35% would cover it

  2. #22

    Fingers like lightning


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    I think post April this is all going to be down to how the contract is advertised. My guess is an inside IR35 rate gives an arguement under the legislation that employment costs must be met by the end client. However if advertised as an umbrella rate, then it could be argued that this has already been taken into account (whether it does in reality or not). Just my thoughts

  3. #23

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    Thanks for your answers. Its cat and mouse, the rates aren't always listed so it comes down to the conversations with recruiters.

    If thats the case, i guess once established with the recruiter if they are quoting the Assignment Rate/Umbrella rate or just the Gross Contractor rate a breakdown of terms will be included within the contract so that there is no scope to challenge this legally later on?

    On the contractor umbrella calculator, it lists Margin as one of the deductions. What margin are they referring to? They normal agency margin is being passed down to the contractor? With then a further umbrella fee to the contractor on top to come?

  4. #24

    Should post faster

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheep1019284 View Post
    On the contractor umbrella calculator, it lists Margin as one of the deductions. What margin are they referring to? They normal agency margin is being passed down to the contractor? With then a further umbrella fee to the contractor on top to come?
    Hi Sheep1019284,

    The margin is the profit the umbrella company makes by providing your services to the agency or the client. This is deducted from the umbrella income on a weekly or monthly basis, depending on when the agency/client pays us.

    Thanks


    Zeeshan

  5. #25

    Nervous Newbie


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    Its such a mess.

    Seen posts on Linkedin with prominent people who are part of offpayroll.org.uk saying that the new Legislation says it must be the client and not the contractor that pays employers NI & App Levy.

    It makes it so difficult to negotiate when nobody knows what they are talking about or meant to be doing. Other than standing strong for what you are worth but then missing out on opportunities.

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheep1019284 View Post
    Its such a mess.

    Seen posts on Linkedin with prominent people who are part of offpayroll.org.uk saying that the new Legislation says it must be the client and not the contractor that pays employers NI & App Levy.

    It makes it so difficult to negotiate when nobody knows what they are talking about or meant to be doing. Other than standing strong for what you are worth but then missing out on opportunities.
    We all know who pays the employer NI and app levy

    It’s us from our rate

    Not sure you are looking at reality in linkin

    It’s clear 100% who pays, no discussions , no questions it’s us

    Why do you think different?


    Sent from my iPhone using Contractor UK Forum

  7. #27

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    oh, dear

  8. #28

    Should post faster

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheep1019284 View Post
    Its such a mess.

    Seen posts on Linkedin with prominent people who are part of offpayroll.org.uk saying that the new Legislation says it must be the client and not the contractor that pays employers NI & App Levy.

    It makes it so difficult to negotiate when nobody knows what they are talking about or meant to be doing. Other than standing strong for what you are worth but then missing out on opportunities.
    Hi Sheep1019284,

    You're talking about the IR35 rules here. This is completely different to umbrella employment.


    Thanks

    Zeeshan

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheep1019284 View Post
    Its such a mess.

    Seen posts on Linkedin with prominent people who are part of offpayroll.org.uk saying that the new Legislation says it must be the client and not the contractor that pays employers NI & App Levy.

    It makes it so difficult to negotiate when nobody knows what they are talking about or meant to be doing. Other than standing strong for what you are worth but then missing out on opportunities.
    I've seen the same and as far as I can workout what SHOULD happen is....

    • Brolly, you get an assignment rate and all deductions (including holiday, Employers taxes and margin) comes out of the headline rate
    • Inside/PAYE, your agreed rate should not include Employers taxes, only income tax and employees NI as per section 44 of ITEPA (I think)


    However what should and will happen is never the same, most if not all will try and pass off the fees to the contractor, either in a rate reduction in the contract or by hoping the contractors doesn't notice and pursue legal recourse
    “Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.”

    ― Marcus Aurelius

  10. #30

    Fingers like lightning


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    Quote Originally Posted by SimonMac View Post
    I've seen the same and as far as I can workout what SHOULD happen is....
    Should being the appropriate word! Post April I don't think there should be any discrepancies if the rate is advertised as an "umbrella rate" not an inside IR35 rate, at that point there cannot be an arguement.

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